Go homepage(回首页) Upload pictures (上传图片) Write articles (发文字帖)
The author:(作者)delvpublished in(发表于) 2013/10/31 9:31:13 German media said the Beijing， Shanghai and other cities being beautiful for listening to South Korea and Japan without monitoring
(Program Guide)
Narrator:
United States, and Germany, and Spain, ordinary people were listening.
Participants in the protest:
We find more and more listening to the public monitor.
Ms rousseff, and Fran?ois hollande, and Angela Merkel, politicians are listening.
Gianni letta Italy: Prime Minister
We cannot tolerate this problem exists on any "grey areas" or questions.
Elio Di Rupo Belgium Prime Minister:
We need to take measures within Europe as a whole.
Make·lvtehelan the Prime Minister:
This is totally unacceptable.
Listening to the storm continues to escalate.
Barack Obama United States President:
Everything I do is a good decision.
Germany media reports, the United States monitor also includes China. The News 1+1 today's focus: United States, ugly ear.
Host in his:
Hello friends, welcome to broadcast the news of the 1+1.
United States global surveillance scandal, arguably in continuous fermentation, is not just an ordinary listening right now, including many heads of State calls also are being tapped, and Brazil had one President, Germany's Angela Merkel, nasty, even all of Europe had one already, including United States allies of quite a few countries. Maybe next round is Asia prevention has also been anxious, since Germany media reports, including Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu and many cities in Asia, Hong Kong, Taipei, United States established by the special intelligence-gathering sites are located, whether this means the United States listening, in fact already came to our neighborhood? If so, what to do, get us from paying attention to, United States listening China?
Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu, were United States included in the listening to the city, which is today we are stunned by the news. Reports are coming in Germany, der Spiegel magazine, they quoted United States National Security Council document states that United States in approximately 80 locations around the world, has a special Ministry of intelligence collection. The magazine websites video display, Hong Kong, Taipei, Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu and other cities in Asia list. United States two allies in East Asia, Korea and Japan, are not on the list above. Germany, der Spiegel magazine official website news video, total of 5.5 points, mainly for United States intelligence agencies to Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel monitor, making the relevant analysis reported. The report disclosed, United States intelligence services in Germany listening Center, located on the roof of the American Embassy in Germany. Embassy roof there is a closed convex on all sides, there should be a large quantity of monitoring equipment.
Germany, der Spiegel magazine reporter:
United States stationed in Germany in the Embassy, eavesdropping specialists, these people belong to the United States intelligence community, CIA or NSA.
The report also said that United States intelligence officer in the Embassy in Germany, should be members of the special intelligence-gathering services, the Agency is active all over the world. Previously, the Germany weekly der Spiegel, reported, Germany was not United States only listens, United States embassies and consulates in about 80 worldwide locations are equipped with listening posts, including Paris, Madrid, Rome, Prague and Geneva.
Japan NHK noted that this monitoring list, including Beijing, Shanghai, Bangkok, Jakarta, 20 Asian cities.
Hold the map reports, we can see that information deadline was on the way to August 13, 2010, all over the world monitoring base, marked with a different color. At the bottom of the map, it is labeled top secret. For this map comes from, Germany media and analysts speculated that probably originated from the snow's earlier leaks of some of the files. The Spiegel was Germany one of the most famous weekly magazine, is considered one of the continent's most influential weekly magazine. This year, after Snowden was exposed, the der Spiegel magazine has reported on many occasions United States listening behavior. As early as June 30, der Spiegel magazine reported that secret documents showed that United States National Security Council system control and storage of Germany most of the telephone and Internet contact information. But recently, the weekly der Spiegel reported even more intensive United States Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel listens, revealing a lot of unknown information.
Bai yansong:
Now we come to the list, in fact, said it was a special intelligence-gathering site, doesn't mean that direct must be in Beijing, Shanghai and Chengdu have been tapped, but has set up this site for special information, is very likely a long time listening behavior. In response to this situation, then we have to connect our mission in Germany journalists Djouda, Djouda hi.
Djouda our reporter:
Gansho, there.
Because the added concern, I believe that China will naturally be added concern, including Beijing, Taipei, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Chengdu cities. You in Germany learned, it reported the details, and this is kind of, you know, hastened to introduce audience?
Djouda:
OK, so this map, detailed lists of the United States SCS special distribution of intelligence services around the world. Can be seen from the upper left corner of the map, SCS has a total of 96 sites, all over the world. Refer to Asian countries and regions are China, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Cambodia, Burma, China, Hong Kong and Taiwan regions. Then in the upper left corner of the map there is a color mark, red for surveillance operations are active; yellow for unmanned remote monitoring; Green is for the technical support activities; white for agents to work site; grey represents agents to still lurk. China's Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu and other places, are white mark, which means that these places are United States intelligence officers.
Recently, Germany were major exposure in the media the United States Embassy in Berlin the roof and contains a large amount of listening devices. United States intelligence officers listening to Angela Merkel. Not long ago, Germany media reports, the end of August, Germany the Federal Constitution protection agency, the United States stationed in Germany Frankfurt Consulate, flying at low altitude detection. Contact these two points can be inferred, United States intelligence activities in other countries, with the Embassy or Consulate as cover Gansho.
Djouda, Germany when media reports, we will focus on one of these, its source of information or maps, comes from God, our credibility and what kind?
Well, according to Germany a large newspaper and of the Süddeutsche Zeitung reported that the original source of this map is Snowden, Gansho.
Djouda, one last question, in fact, we are looking at, in this Chinese city on a map, go back to Germany, Germany Angela Merkel as head of a nation, are in a State of being tapped. In recent weeks, Germany media attitudes and emotions is what kind of, you know?
Germany media recently is a feature-length picture, large-scale intensive coverage of the situation, the media said, Germany Government seemed suddenly became very angry, many European politicians, including the leader of the social democratic party, including the Bavarian Minister of Economic Affairs, United States criticism, should be stopped and the United States that free trade negotiations.
On Wednesday, Germany to the United States sent a delegation made up of representatives of intelligence services and the Prime Minister's Office, has reached the United States, and the United States White House, and the United States intelligence agencies, launched a series of talks and urged him to thoroughly explain, in the scope of the European monitoring, Gansho.
Well, thank you very much Djouda in Germany give us detailed reports. Indeed, the Germany weekly der Spiegel, such a map, though possible from Germany media point of view, is more concerned about Merkel of later fermentation after his calls are monitored. But when we see their city in the midst of such a list, even if it is white, not the most active areas, but this awareness naturally there would have been, so this is related to prevention, we ought to do.
From ordinary people to the Prime Minister, Prime Minister, and even one of his allies were not spared, United States uncovered surveillance tentacles have stretched longer and longer. Financial center in China's capital, Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu and Hong Kong and Taipei, according to the der Spiegel magazine reported that the Special Intelligence named SCS Design Department, to monitor areas that the Government Department of communications.
Kinan online space strategy of the information security forum Editor:
Is technically achievable, government departments communication certainly involves something about local politics, economy, including some of the country's foreign intelligence, so the United States Government, certainly more than the individual's intelligence value even higher. But I think the United States a clean sweep (City), (two years) should be increased.
In some regions of China Government departments, whether already in the United States under its control? Information needs further confirmation. United States response to the ambiguous attitude of other countries, they freely admit that I'm afraid, is not likely. Germany media reports, or let us remain vigilant about risks that may exist.
Kinan:
United States technology is ahead of the data, it can handle large amounts of data information beyond our imagination, Joker so it is entirely possible to do so. After collecting your data, and it can be ex post facto analysis, get what it wants from the inside information. (The United States) it should also be in 80 special intelligence-gathering Department, I think there should be more of a special intelligence analysis unit.
In fact, the United States national security agency technician aidehua·sinuodeng before, in an interview six months ago, has also revealed United States massive surveillance system, an attack on China.
(Subtitles Tip: News June 13, 2013)
Moderator:
As long as an hour interview, Snowden revealed more details of Project Prism, he believed the United States around the globe to more than 61,000 in the past computer invasion, hundreds of targets is in Hong Kong and throughout China, invasion target network backbone, intelligence officers do not invade each computer one by one, you can get a lot of computer information.
Coincidentally, the United States foreign policy magazine site also disclosed, in the United States National Security Agency, has a name for the custom channel operations Office of the secret service, this body over the past 15 years, successfully invaded including China, large numbers of foreign computer and communications systems to obtain information. In recent years, because United States Government continues to increase the size of custom channel Office, so let the secret service are hard to conceal, has finally come to light.
United States already in 2001, launched the space international strategic and operational strategies, especially at the beginning of this year, it had massive expansion of the space command, (planned) 40 cyber warfare unit. So the United States not only as a second living space in cyberspace, and think of it as a new field of battle, so the United States has also established space, nuclear national security strategy and the Trinity of cyberspace. United States such sectors to monitor our key cities, which is entirely a national strategic perspective of the game.
Looking back at the past few days, United States monitor event escalation has made France, and Germany, and Spain United States relations between the allies have been severely challenged, so eavesdropping scandal, also is building a new power relationships between, negatively affected?
United States was extremely concerned about their safety, such as when some Chinese enterprises and want to merger and acquisition United States when some businesses, he'll come up with all sorts of ways to block, for what? It first sought to protect himself such a security, or even no edge, no such safety net woven so, normal commercial behaviour is impossible. Chinese saying is "do unto you", but through the United States listens for continuous fermentation can feel the scandal, United States unto on the one hand, but on the other hand is firmly applied to humans, but is applied that do unto others. When faced with such a situation, I think, including China, many countries of the world cannot get away with it, preferring to take the problem more seriously, early prevention, until their security can be guaranteed.
To tackle this problem next, to connect China institutes of contemporary international relations, Director of the Institute for security and arms control, and Li Wei. Director LEE, Hello.
Li Wei, China institutes of contemporary international relations, Director of the Institute for security and arms control:
Moderator Hello.
We see Germany such a part of the weekly der Spiegel reported, involving Beijing, Shanghai, Taipei, Hong Kong, Chengdu, one of the United States will have varying levels of intelligence-gathering sites, in the face of this situation, although several cities in mainland China is still in white, no red activity, whether we can afford to be complacent, or if you want more closely to guard against something?
Li Wei:
First of all I think complacency is definitely not. We also know that, except you these few cities, we believe that other cities, graded, should also be in the United States under its control. We say, not the matter lightly, because we also know that the United States surveillance monitoring of China, although in the form of, or on the technical means, and its monitoring of the European allies is the same, but it used to obtain intelligence information, in fact, is not the same. In other words, it after stealing information for its allies, it must also consider the use of, its relations with allies questions. However, it after the theft of some intelligence information about China, we also know that, for a long time, which see China as a potential rival, after its strategy towards the Asia-Pacific, we know it as a way to curb China's opponents. So, it gets China's political, economic, diplomatic, military and other intelligence information, it used to, while maintaining United States interests, while for China, making all sorts of trouble. So for the United States to China monitor, I personally think that, or should we attach great importance to.
Director LEE, the next step is to involve the question, assuming that it is true, and we are going to first, rather than to believe it was true, to guard against. You include India's Singh said, I don't use a mobile phone. And then some of the other international conferences, in which gradual fermentation even said listening for that event, we shall meet Government, or how important meeting, we will put the phone to the next, and so on, which should give us a revelation, such as the Chinese do, attitude and related technical precautions?
Yeah, you said quite accurate, because under the existing circumstances, United States on the network, or in the newsletter, is at the core of the digital encryption, it is actually ahead of the other countries of the world. So at this stage, you're going to United States listening to contend for an overall positive, in my opinion, there may still be some issues in technology. To deal with this listening and monitoring, I personally think that it from two aspects, one aspect, we believe that the first, as raised by Singh and important sensitive meetings, if during the Conference, that would keep your communication tools, and the ability to access these networks into the Internet. Another aspect, for our own sensitive networks, physical isolation and the Internet. Of course, we say that these measures are expedient, it with the development of the whole network traffic, in fact, is still not in conformity. So second a aspects, from long-term see, we think to break United States in network communications core technology of monopoly, United States also official uses this monopoly of technology, to on global of other national for unbridled of eavesdropping and listens, so said only development breakthrough themselves of technology, and can in international Shang, especially in United Nations of framework Xia, formed a related Yu network communications of such of international law, to constraint these only of superpower, or power politics, and hegemonism of national, We believe that the only truly conducive to the normal development of global network communications.
Well, then there will be a problem, we will continue to explore. But such a question, have also reminded us that we can't be too optimistic, or to take it easy, the world is flat, as if everyone is such a concept of international citizen. Some involve national security and strategy, and the future of this competitive field, in fact, there are quite a number of traps and hidden secrets, and sometimes is, of course, be alert, including the rapid development of science and technology, your own intellectual property, is an important part of security.
Well, this topic here and then to watch the other side of the mirror, when the United States to its allies, including many leaders of the phone are listening when leaders of these countries and preventive measures will be like? The next important to us is what does this revelation? Come on, look in the mirror.
Listening to the scandal, was buzzing all over the world. United States, this country always like to be the world's policeman, don't know how to end.
28th of this month, the European Parliament delegation arrived in Washington, United States imposed on European countries monitored the event, with the United States intervened. It is reported that France and Germany, to send a delegation this week to the United States. United States domestic surveillance scandal has continued fermentation, by the United States over more than 100 coalition against listening to civil society and institutions, have sent Congress a joint online petition signed by more than 570,000 people, urges Congress to investigate and expose United States national security agency surveillance program overview. 26th, thousands of them are also March in Washington against Government monitoring public communications.
I think their main purpose is to express people's concerns about this issue, we found more listens to public monitoring.
However, in the face of criticism and anger many listening to the injured State came in Washington political circles there is a lack of reflection. The 25th issue of the New York Post published United States foreign relations scholar bout an article. Sarcastic in Germany, and France said, "you have no ships, because there was no United States national security agency capabilities and resources, and if you have, you'll be listening. ”
United States intelligence historian is saying, "listen to rational, saying the United States had to do it, because we are one of the few global superpower. ”
Some officials even believe that Europeans should the United States monitoring program to be grateful.
Bide·Jin United States members of Congress:
The fact is that United States National Security Council has saved the lives of thousands of people, not only in the United States, including France, and Germany, as well as Europe as a whole.
All along, the United States White House monitoring project does not have a clear answer, even insisted that President Barack Obama had no knowledge of monitoring Allied leaders. 28th, when Barack Obama in an interview with the media, once again refused to respond positively, whether to monitor project knowledge.
First of all, I'm not here to confirm that recently has made a series of assumptions in the media, is good decision I make, I am using a variety of information, but they (intelligence services) come in contact with a wide range, we provide policy direction to them.
United States Government Pinter, United States an interdepartmental infighting surfaced. Obama insists that "uninformed," said that the United States of the Los Angeles Times reported on the 28th, this led to discontent in the intelligence sector, they challenged the White House and the State Department in an attempt to draw a line with the intelligence agencies. Many senior intelligence officials noted that the United States monitor key foreign leaders to the White House is not news, must be obtained in advance of the White House and the State Department approval and political risk assessment by the State Department. So who is responsible for this eavesdropping project lasting several years? This is obviously present United States must be made to answer.
Is a bad thing, it may have to stretch its tentacles to Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu and many more, including Taipei City, Hong Kong-China. But on the other hand, is it also as an opportunity, because in the past a lot of things in the game when the United States and its allies, while in other countries is another. This is two, but things have changed, United States he is, all remaining countries is another great, can come together, to develop a relevant international rules? Still want to ask Li Wei, Director of. Director LEE, do you think this is likely to be an opportunity, in many countries, including China, common join forces to develop a new international norm, to balance United States, to confront "9·11" based on anti-terrorism grounds began invading national information security, possible?
I personally think that this voice of the international community or the proposal is an ideal thing, because we know that the current international relations were not equal, United States dominate status quo not only today. Now that the international community, precisely because the United States such practices, reached a State of extreme dissatisfaction will only be proposed to be enacted in the framework of the United Nations with such conventions or agreements. But we also know that, under the current status of the United Nations that without a United States recognition and approval for this, just now you mentioned, United States for what he had done, and is still considered to be in order to counter-terrorism, or for other purposes. But we see clearly, listening to heads of these allies, certainly not for counter-terrorism purposes, it is only for their own national interests, keeping neighbours as a long man, free to play with, to play with. Even so, but to truly achieve one, against the United States of such an international agreement, I personally think that in the current state, it is almost impossible.
Well, thank you very much brought about by Li Wei, Director of resolve, but we have such an attitude is to look at Ministry of Foreign Affairs yesterday, it stresses, network security is a matter of sovereignty and security of States, and calls upon States to act, develop a set of general compliance with the code of conduct of the parties, or at least should unite.
(德媒称北京上海等城市被美列入监听 韩日无监控|美国|监听|情报_新闻资讯2013年10月30日23:03（编辑：SN091）
(节目导视)
解说：
美国、德国、西班牙，普通民众被监听。
抗议活动参与者：
我们发现越来越多的对大众的监听监控。
罗塞夫、奥朗德、默克尔，各国政要被监听。
莱塔 意大利总理：
我们不能容忍这一问题上存在任何的“灰色区域”或疑问。
埃利奥·迪吕波 比利时首相：
我们要在整个欧洲范围内采取措施。
马克·吕特 荷兰首相：
这是完全不可接受的。
监听风波持续升级。
奥巴马 美国总统：
我做的都是有益的决定。
德国媒体报道，美国监听也包括中国。《新闻1+1》今日关注：美国，丑陋的耳朵。
主持人 白岩松：
您好观众朋友，欢迎收看正在直播的《新闻1+1》。
美国在全球的监听丑闻，可以说在持续地发酵，现在已经不仅仅是一个普通的监听，包括很多国家的元首的电话，也都在被监听，于是巴西的总统急了，德国的默克尔急了，甚至整个欧洲都已经急了，包括美国的相当多的盟友国家。接下来也许轮到的是，亚洲的防范也要急了，因为德国的媒体报道，包括北京、上海、成都、香港、台北在内的亚洲很多个城市，也是美国设立的特别情报收集站点的所在地，这是否意味着美国的监听，其实早已经来到了我们的身边？如果是的话，又该怎么办，赶紧我们来关注，美国在监听中国吗？
北京、上海、成都，都被美国列入了监听城市，这是今天让我们感到震惊的消息。报道来自于德国《明镜周刊》，他们引述美国国家安全局文件指出，美国在全球约80个地点，设有特殊情报搜集部。该刊网站发布的短片显示，香港、北京、上海、成都、台北等亚洲城市榜上有名。美国在东亚两个盟友，韩国与日本，则不在名单之上。德国《明镜周刊》官方网站发布的新闻视频，总共5分半钟，主要针对美国情报机构对德国总理默克尔的监听，进行了相关的报道分析。该报道披露，美国情报部门在德国的监听中心，就设在美驻德大使馆的屋顶。大使馆楼顶有一个四面封闭的凸起，里面应该藏有大量的监听设备。
德国《明镜周刊》记者：
美国驻德国大使馆内，有从事窃听的专门人士，这些人属于美国的情报机构，CIA或者NSA。
该报道还称，美国驻德使馆内的情报人员，应该是特殊情报收集服务机构的成员，该机构在世界各地都非常活跃。而此前，德国《明镜周刊》，就有报道披露，德国并不是美国唯一的监听对象，美国在全球约80个地点的驻外使领馆都设有监听站，其中包括巴黎、马德里、罗马、布拉格和日内瓦等。
日本NHK指出，这份监听清单中包括北京、上海、曼谷、雅加达等在内的20个亚洲城市。
把报道中的这张地图定格，我们可以看到，途中信息截止日期是到2010年8月13日，遍布世界各地的监听据点，用不同颜色标注了等级。而在地图的底部，更是标有绝密字样。对于这张地图来自何处，德国媒体和专家分析猜测，其很可能源自于斯诺登早前泄漏的部分文件。《明镜周刊》，是德国最著名的周刊之一，被认为是欧洲大陆最具影响力的周刊之一。今年，斯诺登事件被曝出后，《明镜周刊》曾多次报道美国的监听行为。早在6月30日，《明镜周刊》就报道称，秘密文件表明，美国国家安全局系统的控制和储存德国大部分的电话和互联网联络数据。而近期，《明镜周刊》更是密集报道了美国对于德国总理默克尔的监听，其中揭露了许多不为人知的信息。
白岩松：
现在我们来看这份名单，其实说它是一个特别的情报收集站点，还并不是说直接就一定在北京、上海、成都都已经监听了，但是设立了这种特殊情报的站点，就非常有可能展开很长时间的监听的行为。针对这方面的情况，接下来我们要连线本台驻德国站的记者朱达，朱达你好。
朱达 本台记者：
岩松，你好。
因为亚洲格外的关注，我相信中国也自然会格外的关注，这里头包括了像北京、台北、香港、上海、成都等等城市。你在德国了解到的，它报道的这个细节，以及相关的这种情况是什么样的，你了解的情况，赶紧给观众朋友介绍一下？
朱达：
好的，那么这张地图，详细地列出了美国SCS特别情报搜集服务在全球各地的分布情况。从地图的左上角可以看出，SCS一共有96个站点，遍布世界各地。其中涉及到亚洲的国家和地区有中国、泰国、印尼、马来西亚、菲律宾、柬埔寨、缅甸、中国香港和台湾地区。那么地图的左上角还有一个颜色的标注，红色代表监控行动非常活跃；黄色代表无人的远程监控；绿色代表技术支持活动；白色代表有情报人员工作的站点；灰色则代表情报人员还在潜伏中。中国的北京、上海、成都等地，均为白色标注，这意味着这些地方均有美国的情报人员。
最近，德国媒体也大力曝光了美国驻柏林大使馆的楼顶，藏有大量的侦听设备。美国情报人员在此监听默克尔。不久前，德国媒体还报道，8月底，德国联邦宪法保卫局，还对美国驻德国法兰克福领馆，进行了低空飞行侦查。联系这两点可以推断出，美国在他国进行情报活动，多以使馆或者领馆作为掩护，岩松。
朱达，另外德国媒体在报道的时候，我们也会关注这样一点，它的情报或者地图的来源，来自于哪，我们的可信度又是什么样？
好的，根据德国一份大的报纸，《南德意志报》的报道，这个地图的最初的来源就是斯诺登，岩松。
朱达，最后一个问题，其实我们是在关注，在这个地图上居然有中国的城市，回到德国，德国默克尔作为一个国家的元首，都在处于被监听的状态中。最近一段时间，德国媒体的态度和情绪是什么样的，你了解？
德国媒体最近都是长篇幅、大范围密集地报道这个情况，有媒体说，德国政府仿佛在一瞬间就变得非常的愤怒，有很多的欧洲政要，包括社民党的领袖，包括巴伐利亚州的经济部长，都对美国的行为做出了批评，认为应该停止和美国的这种自由贸易谈判。
本周三，德国向美国派出了一个由情报部门和总理府代表组成的一个代表团，已经到达了美国，要和美国的白宫、和美国的情报机构，展开一系列的会谈，敦促他彻底解释，在欧洲进行监控的范围，岩松。
好，非常感谢朱达在德国给我们带来的详尽的报道。的确，德国《明镜周刊》这样一份地图，虽然可能从德国媒体角度来说，更多关注的是默克尔他的电话被监控之后的后期发酵。但是，当我们看到自己的城市处在这样的名单当中的时候，即便它是白色，还不是最活跃的地区，但是这种警觉自然就该有，接下来是相关的防范，我们该怎么办。
从普通民众到首相总理，甚至连自己的盟友也不放过，美国被曝光的监控触角已经伸得越来越长。中国的首都北京、金融中心上海、成都，以及香港和台北，根据《明镜周刊》的报道，这个名为SCS的特别情报设计部门，专门监控所在地区政府部门的通讯。
秦安 《中国信息安全》杂志网络空间战略论坛主编：
从技术上是可以实现的，政府部门通讯肯定会涉及到一些关于当地的政治经济，包括一些国家外交方面的情报，所以这对美国一个政府来说，肯定要比个人的情报价值更高。但是我认为美国一网打尽的(城市)，(这两年)应该更多。
中国部分地区政府部门，是否真的已经处于美国监控之下？信息还需要进一步的确认。而从美国回应其它国家的模糊态度看，恐怕让他们主动承认，也不太可能。但是德国媒体的报道，还是让我们对可能存在的危险保持警惕。
秦安：
美国的大数据技术是超前的，它可以处理大量超出我们想象的数据信息，所以它一网打尽是完全有可能做到的。把你的数据全收集了以后，它就可以事后来分析，从里面获得它想要的情报。所以(美国)它还应该在八十个特殊情报搜集部之后，我觉得应该有更多的特殊的情报分析部门。
事实上，美国国家安全局前技术人员爱德华·斯诺登，在半年前的一次采访中，也曾透露过美国庞大的监控体系，对中国的攻击。
(字幕提示：2013年6月13日新闻)
主持人：
在长达一个小时的采访中，斯诺登透露了棱镜项目的更多细节，他相信，美国过去在全球各地进行了超过61000项的电脑入侵行动，其中有数以百计的目标是在香港以及中国各地，入侵目标都是网络中枢，让情报人员不用逐一入侵每一台电脑，就能取得大量电脑的信息。
无独有偶，美国外交政策杂志网站同时也披露，在美国国家安全局内部，有一个名为定制通道行动办公室的秘密机构，这个机构在过去约15年间，成功入侵了包括中国在内的大量外国计算机和通讯系统，以获取情报。近年来，由于美国政府不断扩大定制通道行动办公室的规模，所以让这个秘密机构很难被继续隐藏，终于被曝光。
美国已经在2001年，推出了网络空间国际战略和行动战略，特别是在今年年初，它大规模的扩编了网络空间司令部，(计划)成立四十支网络战部队。所以美国不仅把网络空间作为第二位生存空间，而且把它作为一个全新的作战领域，所以美国也建立了太空、核武器和网络空间三位一体的国家安全战略。所以美国这样的部门来监听我们的重要城市，它完全是出于一个国家的战略博弈这么视角。
回看几天来，美国监控事件的不断升级，已经让法国、德国、西班牙等美国盟友之间的关系受到严重挑战，那么监听丑闻，是否也会给正在构建新型大国关系的中美两国，带来负面影响呢？
美国是极其在意自身安全的，比如说当中国的一些企业，想要并购美国一些企业的时候，他会想出种种的办法阻拦其外，为什么呢？它其实骨子里头是要保护自己的这种安全，甚至说把这种安全网织得非常没边没沿，让正常的商业行为都无法进行。中国人讲的是“己所不欲，勿施于人”，但是透过美国的监听丑闻不断地发酵能够感受到，美国一方面是己所不欲，但是另一方面是坚决施于人，而且就是己所不欲的要施于人。在面对这样的一种情况的时候，我觉得包括中国在内的，世界很多的国家不能有侥幸的心理，宁可去把这样的问题看得更重一点，更早地进行防范，自己的相关安全才能够得以保障。
接下来针对这个问题，要连线中国现代国际关系研究院安全与军控研究所的所长，李伟。李所长，您好。
李伟 中国现代国际关系研究院安全与军控研究所所长：
主持人你好。
我们看到德国《明镜周刊》报道的这样一份，涉及到北京、上海、成都、台北、香港这样的一个美国会有不同等级的情报收集的站点，面对这种情况，虽然中国大陆的这几个城市还处在白色，没有红色那么活跃，我们是否可以掉以轻心，或者要更严密地去防范一些事情？
李伟：
首先我认为掉以轻心，肯定是不可为的。我们也知道，除了你上述的这几个城市，我们相信其它的一些城市，按等级，也应该是在美国的监控之下。我们之所以说，不能够对此掉以轻心，因为我们也知道，美国对中国的监控监视，虽然在形式上，或者技术手段上，与它对欧洲盟国的监听监视是一样的，但是它在获取情报信息的使用上，实际上是不一样的。也就是说，它在窃取了它盟友的信息情报以后，它的使用还要考虑，它和盟友的关系的问题。但是，它对于中国的一些情报信息的窃取以后，我们也知道，长期以来，既把中国作为一个潜在的竞争对手，在它的战略转向亚太以后，我们知道它无形中又把中国作为一种遏制的对手。所以说，它获取的中国的无论是政治、经济、外交、军事等各方面的情报信息，它都会用来，既要维护美国的利益，同时它又要针对中国，制造种种的麻烦。所以对于美国对中国的监视，我个人认为，还是应该高度重视的。
李所长，接下来就要涉及这样一个问题，假如说它是真的，而且我们现在也要首先宁可先去相信它是真的，才能做好相关的防范。你看包括印度的辛格会去说，我根本不使用手机。然后其它的有一些国际会议，在这种监听事件逐渐发酵的时候甚至说，我们政府开会，或者怎么样的重要的会议，我们都会把手机放到隔壁等等，这些东西是否该给我们一个启示，比如中国该怎么办，从态度上以及技术上进行相关的防范？
对，你说的相当准确，因为在现有情况下，美国无论在网络上，还是在通讯上，还是在核心的数字加密上，实际上它都领先于世界其它的国家。所以在目前的阶段，你要对美国的监听进行一种全面的正面的抗衡，我个人认为，在技术上可能还会存在一些问题。应对这种监听和监控，我个人认为应该从两个方面着手，一个方面，我们认为第一个，就像辛格所提出来的，在重要敏感的会议，只要在会议期间，那就不要把通讯工具，以及能够接入互联网的这些通讯工具带入。另外一个方面，对于我们自己的敏感的一些网络，可以与互联网进行物理性的隔离。当然我们说这些措施都是一些权宜之计，它跟整个的网络通讯的发展，实际上还是不相符的。所以第二个方面，从长期来看，我们认为要打破美国在网络通讯核心技术的垄断，美国也正式利用这种垄断的技术，来对全球的其它国家进行肆无忌惮的窃听和监听，所以说只有发展突破自己的技术，并且能够在国际上，特别是在联合国的框架下，形成一个相关于网络通讯的这样的国际法，来约束这些唯一的超级大国，或者强权政治、霸权主义的国家，我们认为才真正有利于全球网络通讯的正常发展。
好，接下来还会有问题，我们会继续探讨。但是这样的一个问题，也已经在提醒我们，我们还不能太过乐观，或者说轻松地就去接受，世界是平的，仿佛大家都已经是国际公民这样一个概念。在有一些涉及到国家安全和战略以及未来的这种竞争的领域里头，其实存在着相当多的陷井和不为人知的秘密，有的时候当然是要警觉，包括科技的快速发展，你自身的知识产权，都是安全的重要的一部分。
好，这个话题先放这，接下来要去观察另外的一面镜子，当美国对它的盟友，包括很多国家的领导人的电话都进行监听的时候，这些国家以及这些领导人的防范措施又会是怎么样的？该给我们接下来重要的启示又会是什么？来，照照这样的镜子。
监听丑闻，把全世界都闹得沸沸扬扬。美国，这个一直喜欢充当世界警察的国家，不知道要怎么收场。
本月28日，欧洲议会代表团抵达华盛顿，就美国对欧洲多国实施监听事件，与美国进行交涉。据悉，法国和德国，这周也要派代表团前往美国。在美国国内，监听丑闻也持续发酵，由美国100多个民间团体以及机构组成的反监听联盟，已经向国会递交了57万多人联名签署的网络请愿书，敦促国会调查并公开美国国家安全局监控计划全貌。26日，他们中的数千人，还在华盛顿举行游行，抗击政府监控民众通信。
我想今天旅行的主要目的是表达民众对于这个问题的担忧，我们发现越来越多的对大众的监听监控。
然而，面对众多监听受害国蜂拥而至的批评和愤怒，华盛顿的政治圈内却缺乏反省。25日的《纽约邮报》，刊登了美国外交关系协会学者布特的一篇文章。文中语带讥讽的对德国、法国说，“你没有舰艇，是因为没有美国国家安全局那样的能力和资源，如果你具备，你也会监听。”
还有美国情报历史学家更是大呼，“监听有理，称美国不得不这么做，因为我们是为数不多的全球超级大国。”
一些官员甚至认为，欧洲人应该对美国的监控计划心存感激。
彼得·金 美国国会议员：
事实是，美国国家安全局拯救了数千民众的生命，不仅是在美国，还包括法国、德国，以及整个欧洲。
一直以来，美国白宫都对监听项目没有明确答复，甚至坚称，总统奥巴马对监控盟国领袖毫不知情。28日，奥巴马在接受媒体采访时，再次拒绝正面回应，自己是否对监听项目知情。
首先，我不是来证实，近来媒体所做的一系列假设的，我做的都是有益的决定，我是各种情报的最终使用者，但他们(情报部门)所接触到的范围很广，我们给他们提供政策方向。
美国政府的含糊其辞，也让美国一场部门间的内讧浮出水面。面对奥巴马一直坚称的“不知情”说，美国《洛杉矶时报》28日报道，此举引来了情报部门不满，他们质疑白宫与国务院，试图与情报机构划清界限。多名高级情报官员指出，美国监控关键外国领袖对白宫而言绝非新闻，事前必须获得白宫及国务院首肯，并由国务院评估政治风险。那么到底谁因为这一持续数年的窃听项目负责？这显然是内忧外患的美国，必须做出的回答。
是一个坏事，它的触角可能已经伸到了北京、上海、成都等等很多，包括台北、香港这样的中国城市当中。但是另一方面，是否也是一个机会呢，因为过去很多事情在博弈的时候，美国会和它的个别盟友站在一拨，而其它的国家是另一拨。这次还是两拨，但是情况变了，美国自己是一拨，剩下所有的国家是另一拨，是否可以联合起来，去制定一个相关的国际信息规则呢？还是要请教李伟所长。李所长，您觉得这次是否有可能成为一个机会，包括中国在内的很多国家，共同联手去制定一个新的国际准则，去制衡美国，去突破以“9·11”为这样的基础，以反恐为理由，开始侵涉国家的信息安全，有可能吗？
我个人认为，国际社会的这个呼声或者这个提议是一个理想化的东西，因为我们知道，当前的国际关系并不是平等的，美国的独霸的现状也并不是今天才有的。现在国际社会，正是因为对美国的这样的做法，达到了一种极度不满的状态，才会提出来能够在联合国的框架下制定这样的公约或者协议。但是我们也知道，在当前联合国的现状下，缺乏了美国对此的认可和首肯，刚才您也提到，美国对自己的所作所为，依然认为是为了反恐，或者为了其它其它方面的目的。但是我们清楚地看到，监听这些盟国的首脑，肯定不是出于反恐的目的，它只是出于自身的国家利益，而长期也把自己的邻国作为一个小兄弟，随意地摆弄来、摆弄去。虽然如此，但是要真正地达到一个，针对美国的这样的一个国际公约协议，我个人认为，在当前的状态下，几乎是不可能的。
好，非常感谢李伟所长给我们带来的解析，但是我们还是看一下昨天外交部的这样一个态度，它强调，网络安全事关各国的主权和安全，呼吁各国行动起来，制定一套各方普通遵守的行为规范，起码应该联合起来。
赞