Go homepage(回首页) Upload pictures (上传图片) Write articles (发文字帖)
The author:(作者)delvpublished in(发表于) 2013/10/31 9:36:34 UN official： China’s determination to fight corruption than ever before
Interview with Director of the Office of the United Nations Office on drugs and crime treaties yuehan·sangdeqi
How many people in this world, there are many forms of corruption
Chinese Government officials have made it clear that the determination of zero tolerance of corruption, this strength has never before
In the long run, to make society a correct view of corruption, you have to start with children, from primary school to University, set up to educate the children is different from their parents ' values
Law weekend reporter Chen Xiao
Yuehan·sangdeqizha does not look like an official, at least not in public's eye of the type common officials. The Americans keep a face beard, tall, full of gentle aspects of your life are always ladies first, and with common in American humor-he would say to reporters photographed him ridicule yourself handsome (and handsome).
Sandage is the eighth arrived in China from a visitor, United States diplomat in China, to the present United Nations officials to attend the meeting. As a United Nations official, he had previously invited by the Chinese Government to attend a Conference on human trafficking and smuggling, China participated in a Conference on criminal justice and prison reform, take part in the discussion of the global anti-corruption topics of the fifth session of the International Forum on globalization of crime and criminal law he has choreographed dance.
Sandage has adequate amount on the topic of global anti-corruption voice, his current job is to the United Nations Office on drugs and crime (The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime--UNODC), Director. Founded in 1997, the UNODC is a global leader in the fight against illicit drugs and international crime, and its main task is to prevent terrorism, in the global fight against money-laundering, corruption, organized crime and the fight against trafficking and other activities.
On October 26, the International Conference Center in China University of Geosciences, Sandage accepted rule of law exclusive interviews with reporters over the weekend.
Corruption is part of the community
Rule of law this weekend: learned from you, can turn to corruption on a global scale in recent years showed what new features?
Sandage: there are many people in this world, there are many forms of corruption. But I think there's nothing new. English proverb: the world is not new. In every society, there is always a hot topic, but if you're through the appearance to perceive the essence, the situation is always the same: (corruption) of a person in public office to seek unfair advantage to do the things she shouldn't be doing. Therefore, we did not focus on specific cases, we are concerned about is the fundamental act. Both bribery, extortion and the corruption in the Government procurement process, fundamentally, is nothing but the community has not been able to get his pay to pay the good governance of the Government.
Corruption is in fact the world's Governments face problems, no Government can completely avoid. Corruption is a part of society, every Government defined corruption in his own way, and take a very good solution to the problem of corruption. At the United Nations, the Convention on the fight against corruption as a product of a strong collective political will, reflecting the objectives of the international community to establish a framework for the fight against corruption wishes. Of course, each Government will apply the Convention requires its own specific national conditions.
Aim compliance review results
Weekend of rule of law: the United Nations Convention against corruption was established in November 2009 the compliance review mechanism, the mechanism "peer review" mode, the consideration by the State party to another State party to implement, and the desirability of a random mix by drawing of lots. We know that this year May have been determined by lot from Viet Nam and the Bahamas as a country under consideration, consideration of China's performance conditions. As far as you know, this review currently has an end?
Sandage: as far as I know there is no (results).
I know the process is like this: first submitted by the Government of China to other relevant anti-corruption legal documents, experts from both Governments to respectively read the Chinese laws and the UN Convention against corruption, then they will write a report. Now, they are reading the first two chapters of the Convention, combined with China's legal documents to make some comments, such as those involving these terms, doing well in which Chinese law, areas in which you need to modify, which requires the establishment of a new article, and so on. Tasks are individually read by experts to determine whether China's laws in line with the requirements of the Convention.
Rule of law this weekend: review is specific to the subject for its consideration any consistent degree of domestic law with the Convention? Whether it involves the implementation of domestic law?
Sandage: review does not concern China how to carry case. We're reading legal documents, compare them with the requirements of the Convention, resulting in two scenarios: China's laws into conformity with the requirements of the Convention, or if you need to consider amending the law in China to conform to the requirements of the Convention.
Rule of law this weekend: this performance consideration taking into account the similarity of legislation? Does contain other content?
Sandage: performance review does not require a specific language is, it focuses on Chinese laws results can achieve the pursuit of the objectives of the Convention. Experts from other government judicial departments of the two countries, after reading the China legal documents and conventions, write reports, Chinese law fulfils the Convention and which aspects need to be adapted to more in line with the Convention.
Report was prepared by the experts of the two countries, we in the Secretariat to assist the preparations. After the preparation of the report, the experts will report to the Chinese Government, Chinese experts on Chinese law to explain the situation to the two review of, for example, China believes that consideration of State for some misunderstanding of law they can explain, Chinese law was in conformity with the Convention, and so on. Consideration of expert consultations and the Chinese side will continue to communicate, until the report is complete.
Of course, this report is confidential, and will be handed over to the Chinese Government after the completion, by the Chinese Government to decide whether or not open to the public, for which we are not mandatory requirements.
China's determination to fight corruption than ever before
Weekend of rule of law: you are concerned about corruption in China before, as well as initiatives to fight corruption? How would you rate it?
Sandage: I have just mentioned, each Government has to face the problem of corruption, China is no exception. I know that President XI Jinping, made it clear that corruption should insist on "Tiger, fly", Chinese Government officials have made it clear that the determination of zero tolerance for corruption, this is unprecedented.
A change of mindset to start young
Rule of law this weekend: in his speech, you mentioned that UNODC attached great importance to the role of education in combating corruption, is committed to educate students about corruption all over the world. But as far as we know, many of the corrupt officials who are well-educated, is able to achieve the purpose of the prevention of corruption through education?
Sandage: the United Nations Convention against corruption, which has a whole chapter on how to prevent crime, in addition to the punishment of acts of corruption, Member States of the need to invest time, energy, and anti-corruption projects. Of course, it is very difficult to change social attitudes, needs a long-term process, not readily take a table like I do so easily. Everyone knows corruption is harmful, but if you grow up in a society where corruption is widespread, even if you're educated, corruption in your opinion does not count for anything.
In the short term, to deal with corruption, there must be a mechanism to punish corruption, law, police, court Agency, but if in the long run, to make corruption in the perspective of society as a whole, and we need to start with children, from primary school to University, to educate the kids are different from their parents ' values. Therefore, in the long run, public education, public awareness is crucial, because you want to build is a zero tolerance for corruption of society, this generation might not be the same with them.
Whistle-blower protection of witnesses is important
Rule of law week: you mentioned in your speech, in every country in the protection of whistle-blowers, witnesses, there is a great deal of challenges, what do you think?
Sandage: for example, I worked in a municipal government, surprised to hear my superiors are taking bribes, as a trade, he built a street contract was awarded to the briber. Entire event my supervisor, the briber and I were the only three people know. If I did not tell the police, nobody knew about the bribes. In this case, if I am able to report to the police, I was protected by law, it is very important.
Weekend of rule of law: judicial practice, widely exist will not punish bribe to get investigated and dealt with important clues or evidence, this is a common thing to do in the world?
Sandage: I slightly mentioned in the speech. In reality in many corruption cases, usually only two parties, bribe and people and therefore usually requires a party to testify or is very difficult to detect clues of the police. So for the people involved in the bribery, if they surrender, and reliable proof, then the judge will consider mitigating against them, now serving sentences like were going to be fined, was going to 5-year sentence now only take up to a year. Because these people to turn himself in and testify, legal framework on their attitudes are more liberal.
International forums should be encouraged
Weekend of rule of law: the United Nations sends representatives to the forum for two consecutive years (International Forum on globalization of crime and criminal law), how can you participate in this forum?
Sandage: this is the second part in this forum of the United Nations, the last time my colleagues participated. United Nations and UNODC in its efforts to raise the level of our cooperation with China. With China's increasing emergence as a rising power, China's universities and scholars are eager to further international exchange, we are concerned that Chinese scholars to participate in various international conferences, speeches, papers. Such exchanges in international academic circles are very popular. I think it is worth encouraging, it is able to promote mutual understanding between the international, so that everyone can benefit from.
Forum Chairman and organizer of He Bingsong, Chinese scholars highly respected old Professor of criminal law, literature rich, which will ensure the credibility of this forum. Although this forum is only the fifth time, the Forum both in size, quality and impact of the ever-increasing development. Wish the Forum better and better!
(Master Chen Yinjun CUPL as this interview provides translation, would like to thank! )
Law weekend(联合国官员：中国反腐决心前所未有|中国|腐败|联合国_新闻资讯2013年10月30日00:30（编辑：SN091）
专访联合国毒品与犯罪办公室条约事务部主任约翰•桑德奇
◎ 这个世界上有多少种人，就有多少种形式的腐败
◎ 中国政府高层已经明确表示了对腐败零容忍的决心，这种力度也是前所未有的
◎ 从长期来看，要使整个社会正确看待腐败现象，就要从娃娃抓起，从小学到大学，要教育孩子们树立起不同于其父母的价值观
法治周末记者 陈霄
约翰•桑德奇乍看上去并不像个官员，至少不是国人眼人常见的那类官员。这个美国人留着一脸络腮胡子，身材高大，充满绅士风度，事事处处总是女士优先，并带着美国人身上常见的那种幽默——他会对给他拍照的记者调侃说自己handsome(英俊)。
桑德奇已经是第八次来到中国，从一个游客，到美国的在华外交官，再到现在来华参加会议的联合国官员。作为联合国官员，他此前曾受中国政府邀请来华参加一个关于人口贩卖与走私的会议，还来华参加过关于刑事司法和监狱改革的会议，参加这次讨论全球反腐话题的第五届全球化时代犯罪与刑法国际论坛他已轻车熟路。
桑德奇显然对全球反腐这样的话题拥有足够分量的发言权，他目前的职务是联合国毒品与犯罪问题办公室(The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime——UNODC)条约事务部主任。成立于1997年的UNODC是全球在打击非法毒品和国际犯罪方面的领导者，它的主要任务是预防恐怖主义、在全球进行反洗钱、反腐败、反有组织犯罪和反贩卖人口等活动。
10月26日，在中国地质大学国际会议中心，桑德奇接受了法治周末记者的独家专访。
腐败是社会的一部分
法治周末：从您了解到的情况，能否谈谈最近几年全球范围的腐败行为呈现出什么新的特点？
桑德奇：这个世界上有多少种人，就有多少种形式的腐败。但我想，没有什么是新的。英文有句谚语：天底下本无新鲜事。每个社会中，总有时下的热门话题，但是如果你透过现象看本质，情形总是不变的：(腐败就是)一个身处公共职位的人谋求不正当的好处去做他本不应该做的事。因此，我们其实并不关注具体的个案，我们关注的是本质上的行为。无论是贪污受贿、敲诈勒索还是政府采购过程中的腐败，从根本上来说，不外乎是社会没有能够得到其买单支付的政府良治。
事实上腐败是世界各国政府都要面对的难题，没有哪个政府可以完全避免。腐败是社会的一部分，每个政府都以自己的方式定义腐败，并需要很好地解决腐败的问题。在联合国，《反腐败公约》作为一个强大的集体政治意愿的产物，体现了国际社会制定一个框架进行反腐败斗争的目标愿望。当然，每个政府都需要将公约适用于自己的特定国情。
履约审议追求目标结果
法治周末：《联合国反腐败公约》于2009年11月建立了履约审议机制，该机制采用“同行审议”模式，由两个缔约国对另一个缔约国实施审议，审议国和被审议国通过抽签随机搭配。我们知道，今年5月已抽签确定由越南和巴哈马担任审议国，对中国的履约相关情况进行审议。据您所知，这个审议目前是否已经有了结果？
桑德奇：据我所知目前还没有(结果)。
我所知道的审议过程是这样的：先由中国向其他两国政府提交有关反腐的法律文件，来自这两国政府的专家要分别阅读中国的法律和《联合国反腐败公约》，之后他们会就此撰写一份报告。现在，他们正在阅读公约的前两章，结合中国的法律文件作出一些评论，例如涉及这些条款，中国法律在哪些方面做得好，在哪些方面需要修改，哪些方面需要设立一个新的条款，等等。专家们的任务是逐条阅读，以确定中国的法律是否符合公约的要求。
法治周末：审议只是针对受审议国国内法与公约的相一致程度吗？是否涉及到国内法的执行情况？
桑德奇：审议并不关注中国怎样执行案件。我们阅读法律文件，将它们与公约的要求作比较，结果不外乎两种情况：中国法律符合公约的要求，或者需要考虑修改中国法律使之符合公约的要求。
法治周末：那么这种履约审议考虑的只是立法的相似性？是否还包涵其他的内容？
桑德奇：履约审议并不要求必须是某一种特定的语言，它只关注中国法律能否实现公约追求的目标结果。那么来自其他两国政府司法部门的专家，在阅读中国法律文件和公约之后，会撰写报告，中国法律哪些方面符合公约，哪些方面需要调整以便更符合公约。
报告是由两国的专家起草，我们秘书处负责协助准备工作。报告拟定之后，专家会将报告拿给中国政府看，中国的专家可以就中国法律的情况向两个审议国作出解释，例如中国方认为审议国家对某些法律存在误解，他们可以作出解释，中国法律确实是符合公约的，等等。审议国专家和中国方会持续进行协商沟通，直至报告最终完成。
当然，这份报告属于机密文件，完成之后会交给中国政府，由中国政府自行决定是否对外公开，对此我们没有强制性要求。
中国反腐决心前所未有
法治周末：您之前是否关注过中国的腐败情况以及治理腐败的举措？您对此如何评价？
桑德奇：我刚才就说过，每个政府都要面对腐败问题，中国当然也不例外。我知道习近平主席明确提出，反腐要坚持“老虎、苍蝇一起打”，中国政府高层已经明确表示了对腐败零容忍的决心，这种力度也是前所未有的。
改变观念要从娃娃抓起
法治周末：您在演讲时提到，UNODC很重视教育对反腐败的作用，也在世界范围内致力于向大学生宣传反腐思想。但是就我们所知，许多腐败官员都是受过良好教育的，那么通过教育是否就能够达到预防腐败的目的呢？
桑德奇：联合国反腐败公约里面有整整一章是关于如何预防犯罪的，除了惩处腐败行为，也需要成员国投入时间、精力、项目进行反腐。当然，要改变社会观念是很困难的，需要一个长期的过程，可不是像我这样随手拍一拍桌子这么容易。每个人都知道腐败有害，但如果你在一个腐败普遍存在的社会中成长起来，即使你受过高等教育，腐败在你看来也不是什么大事。
从短期来看，要解决腐败问题，当然要有能够惩处腐败的机制，有法律，有警察、法院这些机构，但如果从长期来看，要使整个社会正确看待腐败现象，就要从娃娃抓起，从小学到大学，要教育孩子们树立起不同于其父母的价值观。因此，长远来说，公共教育、公众意识至关重要，因为你们要建立的是一个人们对于腐败零容忍的社会，这与他们的上一代可能是不一样的。
保护举报人证人很重要
法治周末：您在演讲中提到，目前各国在保护举报人、证人方面存在很大的挑战性，具体体现在哪里？
桑德奇：举个例子，我在某个市政府工作，意外地听到我的上级正在收受贿赂，作为交易，他把某一条街道的建造合同给了行贿者。可能整个事件只有我的上级、行贿者和我三个人知道。如果我不告诉警方，那么没有人会知道这次贿赂。在这种情况下，如果我能够向警方举报，我是受到法律保护的，这一点非常重要。
法治周末：在司法实务中，广泛地存在不处罚行贿方从而获得查处受贿一方重要线索或者证据的情形，这在世界上是一种通行的做法吗？
桑德奇：这个我在演讲中略有提及。现实中在很多的腐败案件里，通常只有两方，行贿人和受贿人，因此通常需要一方作证，否则警方要侦查线索是非常困难的。所以对于参与贿赂的人，如果他们前来自首，并作出可靠的证明，那么法官会考虑对他们从轻处罚，比如本来要服刑的现在就判处罚金，本来要服刑5年的现在只需要一年。因为这些人来自首并作证，法律体制对他们的态度是比较宽容的。
国际论坛值得鼓励
法治周末：联合国连续两年派员参加了这个论坛(全球化时代犯罪与刑法国际论坛)，您这次参加对这个论坛怎么看？
桑德奇：这是联合国第二次参加这个论坛，上一次我同事参加了。联合国以及UNODC都在努力提高我们与中国的合作水平。随着中国日益崛起为新兴大国，中国的高校和学者都渴望更多的国际交流，我们关注到中国学者积极参与各种国际会议、发表演讲、发表论文。这样的交流在国际学术圈是非常普遍的。我认为这是值得鼓励的，它能够促进国际间的相互了解，这让大家都能受益。
论坛的主席和组织者何秉松先生，是中国刑法学界德高望重的老教授，论著丰富，这也确保了本届论坛的信誉度。虽然本届论坛只是第五次举办，但论坛无论是在规模、质量还是在影响力方面都不断发展。祝愿论坛越办越好！
(中国政法大学硕士陈银君为本专访提供翻译，谨此致谢！)
赞