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The author:(作者)左published in(发表于) 2013/11/12 0:11:30 Mr. Chi Fulin： Government “gold“ high decentralization is still not enough
Transformation of government functions and the reform is the first thing new Government promoting the event, be regarded as comprehensive reform "Paws" macro "ran guns."
18 plenary session was an important issue of concern, and the transformation of government functions is the community's common expectation. The current transformation of government functions at what stage? What are challenges? China (Hainan) reform and Development Research Institute Mr. Chi Fulin told Xinhua reporter in an exclusive interview with the two "most critical" answer: now the Chinese Government is in marketing, business, social and regional decentralization of the most critical period, are at economic-oriented Government the most crucial period of transition to the public service-oriented Government.
This version writing Jinghua times, Shangxi
-Talk about problems
Government intervention in microeconomic activities of corruption
People's daily: after the formation of a new Government, why put the transformation of governmental functions in an outstanding position? What is the relationship between transforming government functions and the reform of comprehensive?
Mr. Chi Fulin: establishing a socialist market economic system reforms, from 1993 were 14 third plenary session to confirm, now in 20 years. In 20 years, as the planned economy and the related rise of the market economy, Government-dominated economy has played an important role in the process of establishing a socialist market economy, which is a process of development of the market economy, is an obvious defect, has become the biggest problem facing the economy today. So the new Administration highlighted to a greater degree and playing a leading role of the market in allocating resources within the scope, function effectively in a market-oriented Government.
On the transformation of government functions and the relationship between the comprehensive reform, my understanding is, transforming government functions is a comprehensive breakthrough of deepening reform, that is to say, a comprehensive breakthrough of deepening reform, depends on the substantive change in the functions of the Government. Only through the transformation of government functions, to straighten out the Government and the market, the Government and society, the relationship between Central and local governments, form the full power of deepening reform and working together.
People's daily: what do you think the transformation of government functions is not in place? What are the issues?
Mr. Chi Fulin: the transformation of government functions
Achieved some success in recent years, but is still not in place, mainly reflected in the characteristics of the Government-led economic growth is still more prominent. Local governments are still in pursuit of GDP growth as the main objective, to enlarge the scale of investment is an important way, resource allocation and administrative intervention is an important means of administrative control, leads to imbalance between investment and consumption, repeated construction, excess, waste of resources, environmental pollution and other problems, and lack of government public service function.
The transformation of government functions is not in place will cause remarkable problems for the Government to rectify itself and depth involved in micro-economic activities breed of power rent-seeking corruption, become the main reason for the decline in credibility for the Government.
-Talk about decentralization
Decentralization is a prerequisite for simple governance and Government soldiers
People's daily: decentralization of government commitment to cancel at least within 5 years and over one-third of the administrative approval procedures, decentralization of Central has been canceled this year, and 334, how it works? Why the change of government functions should deepen the reform of the administrative examination and approval system as a breakthrough?
Mr. Chi Fulin: current administrative examination and approval matters still more, and approval procedures cumbersome, inefficient, and use of approved profit-making more prominent, advance the reform of the administrative examination and approval system to increase the Government's decentralization efforts to reduce government intervention in microeconomic activities. In this sense, transform government functions need to deepen the reform of the administrative examination and approval system as a breakthrough. New Government focused on decentralization explains the transformation of government functions, train of thought is very clear, is fairly large. But the reform of the administrative examination and approval system is not merely a problem of reducing the number of items requiring administrative approval, the most important thing is to let the market to a greater extent, allocation of resources within the context of wider.
People's daily: Premier Li keqiang on November 1 in the transformation of local government function and reform of a videophone meeting noted that decentralization under the influence of local and sectoral interests, approval with higher gold content remained in the hands of decentralization there is moisture, "dry goods" not much. Why is this so?
Mr. Chi Fulin: now, on the whole, we've been on the delegation of authority to the market and take a step forward, but more substantial powers drop enough. One, aimed at breaking the monopoly to market decentralization is not enough; second, although some has begun decentralization, involving government interests, decentralization with high gold content is not enough, it is now at the most critical time of decentralization, to continue to adhere to the limited role of Government-led market, or the market dominated by giving full play to the role of Government in a crucial period. This is a fundamental question, we are at a transition point.
People's daily: the Government is committed to this reform to ensure that the financial support staff only reduced rather than increased, but the "chosen men" seem unlikely.
Mr. Chi Fulin: sorted by the three questions are: decentralization, Jane, and soldiers, decentralization is simply political premise, so the core problem is that the Government delegation, would certainly lead to the Administration's political decentralization, Jane Government will create conditions for soldiers. Decentralization is a major premise, if decentralization is not Regal, Jane governance is difficult, soldiers don't talk.
-Talk about breaking Lee
Looking forward to release the monopoly industry management
The Beijing times: your Government decentralization is key "gold higher" substantive powers, covering areas like decentralization of the lifeline of the national economy? How to promote the reform of monopoly industries, especially in areas of administrative monopoly?
Mr. Chi Fulin: current Government "counts higher" substantial decentralization of power is not enough, that issues relating to sectoral interests, is the next step in streamlining government and market relations, the crux of the problem. Because powers already in place relating to General, involves a reform of the sector and industry interests are not in place.
Need first to break administrative monopoly on the monopoly industries, and to let go of social capital on the competitive aspect, which at present farmer is not enough. Looking forward to 18 third plenary session is determined to cut government administrative examination and approval and control of the resources of factor prices, promoting the rights to social capital let go of monopoly industries, particularly in the railway, electricity, telecommunications, postal services, oil and other basic areas of open markets and introducing competition.
People's daily: you have referred to the current government reform tendencies are not strong, perhaps even a weakening trend. When the change of government functions involving a number of ministries or official interest, "eating"?
Mr. Chi Fulin: sectoral interests, industry, local interests more prominent cases, there is an urgent need to promote, to have high level of integration and coordination, involving the adjustment of interests and power structure adjustment, integrated and take into account interest adjustments and come up with specific measures, this is very, very important. Administrative system appears to be a number of institutions, persons, increase or decrease is essentially a power adjustment. Adjustment involves the rights and interests of the reform is the most difficult, "cut" is the Government's own axe to yourself.
Reform is the biggest challenge of curing the interest structure, in particular sectors, local and sectoral "fence with vested interests". Interest structure solidified when not yet structured shape, they also had a window. Bust the interest structure, reform of the most important is to establish a high-level coordinating body.
People's daily: the State Council has established the Inter-Ministerial Joint Conference system for economic reform, administrative reform is also needed a similar system? You have proposed the establishment of a high-level coordinating body of reform, which the success of the reform?
Mr. Chi Fulin: the transformation of government functions and the reform, are faced with constraints of sectoral interests, industry interests, the complexity, depth, holistic, integrated features prominently. Only the establishment of mechanisms for coordination of reform from the top down, only up to the central level design and coordination in order to fit within broader reforms. Therefore, reform to establish a high-level coordinating bodies at the central level, for the transformation of government functions and the reform to create important framework conditions.
-On transformation
Negative inventory management attempts to "small government"
The Beijing times: Prime Minister stressed that local government reform is a revolution in itself, relic, dare to tackle "a man of iron." How to crack the transformation of government functions "above, the following discounts" and "last mile" problem?
Mr. Chi Fulin: local government reform must first change GDP-centered "growth" needs to reform the system of administration, finance and taxation system, cadre selection system, and so on. I think that the local governments "relic" the only prerequisite of reform is to change the way the Government-led growth, allow market mechanisms to fully play a role in stimulating market vitality. Otherwise, it was very difficult by decentralization of local government.
The Beijing times: in 2003, when the SARS crisis was raised by the economy-building your Government turned to public service-oriented Government, 10 years later what do you think of this transformation in phases?
Mr. Chi Fulin: I think right now the transformation is in the most critical period, public products shortage is becoming a current social contradictions. Next most important thing is to turn the economy-oriented central-local relationship to central-local relationship in the public service orientation. In this context in order to straighten out the central-local relationship, building the public service type Government, Central and local government public service responsibility is clear, legalization, accountable.
The Beijing times: in your opinion, how can a country as China built as a "small government" or ideal of Government?
Mr. Chi Fulin: I think the free trade zone, Shanghai major direction negative inventory management is a pilot. I don't agree with some people say that it is impossible for us to achieve a "small government, big society". "Small government, big society" are the implications for market and social decentralization, stimulating the market and social vitality, dynamism and synergy, to bring into full play the leading role in the market in the allocation of resources, in terms of industry self-regulation of social organization played an important role. Are faced with many new contradictions and problems in that regard.
(Original title: "gold" high decentralization is not enough)
政府职能转变和机构改革是新一届政府着力推进的第一件大事，被视为全面深化改革的“马前卒”，宏观调控的“当头炮”。
作为十八届三中全会颇受关注的一个重要议题，政府职能转变是社会各界的共同期待。当前政府职能转变处在什么阶段？面临哪些难题？中国(海南)改革发展研究院院长迟福林在接受京华时报记者专访时用了两个“最关键”作答：当前中国政府正处在向市场、企业、社会、地方放权的最关键时期，正处在从经济建设型政府向公共服务型政府转型的最关键时期。
本版采写京华时报记者商西
□谈问题
政府介入微观经济活动滋生腐败
京华时报：新一届政府成立后为什么把转变政府职能摆在突出位置？转变政府职能与全面改革之间是什么关系？
迟福林：建立社会主义市场经济体制的改革目标，从1993年被十四届三中全会确认，到现在已经20年了。20年中，随着计划经济和市场经济此消彼涨，政府主导型经济方式在建立市场经济体制过程中发挥了重要作用，这既是市场经济发展的一个过程，也是一个明显的缺陷，今天已成为经济生活面临的最大问题。因此新一届政府突出强调要在更大程度和范围内发挥市场配置资源的主导作用，在市场主导下有效发挥政府的作用。
关于政府职能转变与全面改革之间的关系，我的理解是，转变政府职能是全面深化改革的突破口，也就是说，全面深化改革的突破，取决于政府职能的实质性转变。只有通过政府职能转变，才能理顺政府与市场、政府与社会、中央与地方之间的关系，形成全面深化改革的动力和合力。
京华时报：您认为当前政府职能转变有哪些不到位？带来哪些问题？
迟福林：政府职能转变
近几年取得一定成效，但仍不到位，主要体现在政府主导型经济增长方式的特征仍然比较突出。地方政府仍在以追求GDP增长速度为主要目标、以扩大投资规模为重要途径、以资源配置的行政控制和行政干预为重要手段，导致投资消费失衡、重复建设、产能过剩、资源浪费、环境污染等问题，还造成政府公共服务职能的缺位。
政府职能转变不到位也给政府自身建设带来十分突出的问题，深度介入微观经济活动滋生权力寻租等腐败现象，成为政府公信力下降的主要原因。
□谈放权
放权是政府简政和精兵的前提
京华时报：本届政府承诺5年内至少取消和下放1/3以上的行政审批事项，今年中央已取消和下放334项，效果如何？为什么政府职能转变要以深化行政审批制度改革为突破口？
迟福林：当前行政审批事项仍较多、审批程序繁琐、效率低下，利用审批牟利的问题比较突出，推进行政审批制度改革能加大政府放权力度，减少政府对微观经济活动的干预。从这个意义上讲，转变政府职能需要以深化行政审批制度改革为突破口。新一届政府以放权为重点破解政府职能转变，思路很清楚，力度也比较大。但行政审批制度改革绝不仅仅是减少行政审批事项数量的问题，最重要的是让市场在更大程度上、更宽的范围内配置资源。
京华时报：国务院总理李克强11月1日在地方政府职能转变和机构改革工作电视电话会议上指出，简政放权受地方和部门利益影响，有的含金量较高的审批事项仍留在手中，有的放权有水分，“干货”不多。为什么会这样？
迟福林：现在总体上看，我们在向市场放权上已经又向前走了一步，但更实质的权力放得还不够。其一，以打破垄断为目标向市场放权还不够；其二，尽管有些权力已开始下放，但涉及政府自身利益的、含金量高的权力下放还不够，所以现在正处在放权的最关键时候，到了是继续坚持政府主导下市场的有限作用、还是市场主导下充分发挥政府作用的关键时期。这是一个根本问题，我们正处在这样一个转换的关键点。
京华时报：政府承诺这次机构改革要确保财政供养人员只减不增，但“精兵”力度似乎不大。
迟福林：这三个问题的先后排序是：放权，简政，精兵，放权是简政的前提，所以核心问题是政府放权，放权一定会带来政府简政，简政将为精兵创造条件。放权是一个大前提，如果放权不破题，简政很困难，精兵也无从谈起。
□谈破利
期待放开垄断行业经营权
京华时报：您提出政府放权的关键是要放“含金量较高”的实质性权力，涉及国民经济命脉的领域要不要放权？如何推进垄断行业改革，尤其是行政垄断领域？
迟福林：目前政府对“含金量较高”的实质性权力下放还不够，这涉及部门利益问题，是下一步理顺政府和市场关系最核心的一个问题。因为涉及一般性的权力已经在放，但涉及部门利益和行业利益的改革还远不到位。
在垄断行业上需要首先打破行政垄断，并在竞争性环节上向社会资本放开，这方面目前破题还很不够。期待十八届三中全会下决心彻底减少政府对资源要素价格的行政审批和管制，推动垄断行业的经营权向社会资本放开，尤其是在铁路、电力、电信、邮政、石油等基础领域放开市场、引入竞争。
京华时报：您曾提到目前政府自身改革的倾向并不强，甚至可能是一个减弱趋势。当政府职能转变涉及一些部委或官员利益时，怎么“啃得动”？
迟福林：在部门利益、行业利益、地方利益比较突出的情况下，迫切需要顶层推动，要有高层次的统筹协调，涉及利益调整和权力结构调整时，统筹考虑利益关系调整，拿出具体办法，这一点特别特别重要。行政体制改革表面上是机构、人员、数量的增减，实质上是权力格局的重新调整。凡是涉及权力和利益调整的改革都是最难的，“壮士断腕”就是政府自己向自己开刀。
改革遇到的最大挑战就是固化的利益格局，尤其是部门、地方和行业的“既得利益藩篱”。在利益格局固化尚未形成组织化形态的时候，改革还有窗口期。打破固有的利益格局，最重要的是建立高层次的改革协调机构。
京华时报：国务院最近成立经济体制改革工作部际联席会议制度，行政体制改革是不是也需要类似制度？您一直建议建立一个高层次的改革协调机构，这会关系改革的成败吗？
迟福林：政府职能转变和机构改革，都面临部门利益、行业利益的掣肘，其复杂性、深刻性、整体性、统筹性特点非常突出。只有建立自上而下的改革协调机制，只有上升到中央层面的设计和协调才能适应更深层次的改革。因此，在中央层面建立高层次改革协调机构，将为政府职能转变和机构改革创造重要的体制条件。
□谈转型
负面清单管理尝试“小政府”
京华时报：总理强调，地方政府改革是一场自我革命，要舍利为公，敢啃“硬骨头”。如何才能破解政府职能转变“上面动作大，下面打折扣”的“最后一公里”难题？
迟福林：地方政府改革首先要改变以GDP为中心的“增长主义”，需要改革行政管理体制、财政税收体制、干部选拔体制等。我认为当前能让地方政府“舍利”改革的唯一前提就是改变政府主导型增长方式，让市场机制充分发挥作用，激发市场活力。若非如此，让地方政府放权很困难。
京华时报：2003年SARS危机时您就提出要由经济建设型政府转向公共服务型政府，10年后的今天您觉得这个转型处在什么阶段？
迟福林：我认为现在这个转型正处在最关键时期，公共产品短缺正成为当前社会的突出矛盾。未来最重要的是要将经济总量导向的中央地方关系转变为公共服务导向的中央地方关系。在这一前提下才能理顺中央地方关系，才能建设公共服务型政府，使中央和地方政府的公共服务职责明确化、法定化、可问责。
京华时报：在您看来，对于中国这样一个大国怎样才能建成一个“小政府”或者说理想的政府？
迟福林：我认为正在上海自贸区试点的负面清单管理是一个大方向。我不赞成有人说我们不可能实现“小政府，大社会”。“小政府、大社会”的内涵是向市场和社会放权、激发市场和社会的活力、动力与合力，这样才能充分发挥市场在配置资源中的主导作用，发挥社会组织在行业自律方面的重要作用。这方面还面临很多新矛盾、新问题。
(原标题：“含金量”高的权力下放还不够)
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