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The author:(作者)左published in(发表于) 2013/11/13 7:13:27 Expert interpretation of government functions in the market turned to
CCTV's News 1+1 November 12, 2013, broadcasts of the comprehensive reform programme started in the China (Hainan) reform and Development Research Institute said Mr. Chi Fulin, President of: "notice short, tightly around the decisive role of the market in resource allocation, that gives the two signals: signals, we determined the direction of market-oriented reforms, all things that the market can do, to the market. Second, the transformation of government functions, not Government, should not have Government, we need to change the way the Government-led growth, and under the market-oriented economic areas, the effective role of Government, instead of the Government under the auspices of the effective role of the market. "Full program:
Commentator Bai yansong:
Hello friends, welcome to live of the press 1+1.
Today was normal, but we are very much looking forward to, today is an historic day for China. If closing 18 the third plenary session this afternoon, will make China's reform process faster, better, and patterns of larger, this day was bound to history. And it's interesting, starting from the third plenary session, as he opened the curtain of China's reform, therefore, third plenary session and the relationship between China's reform process has been combed over. But removing closed here today, 18 third plenary session, two third plenary session is closed in the past have to later. Once opened the curtain is the third plenary session of China reform, December 22, 14 third plenary session is to 1993 once was. But must be both nights closing plenary session, is crucial for the reform process in China. So, this is the third time the closing plenary session, Chinese people often say: "good meals not afraid of the day", closing plenary session today how it will promote China's reform process, this bowl of rice, then how will become even better? Today we're focused on.
Mass 1:
Fate decides the Chinese generally are concerned about.
2 people:
Almost every day in concern, and every morning I looked.
Mass: 3:
Understanding, frequently heard on the news, but honestly don't know.
The masses 4:
Our national affairs, would not care.
The crowd 5:
Attention to these national policies to promote the development of such reforms.
Narrator:
18 the successful conclusion of the third plenary session of the party today, painted new blueprint for comprehensive reform, with over 35 years of China's reform and opening up the threshold of a new era.
Bai yansong:
As always, a closing of the General Assembly today issued a communique communique was the third plenary session of the longest, more than 7,000 words, the shortest is 12 the third plenary session of only more than 500 words. So today's Gazette is somewhere between the two figures, a few days later it will introduce more detailed through the decisions of the General Assembly. Talk but listen and we may see only a news of this announcement, but experts do in between the lines, to see for the future of China, which will change. Such as keywords, we said, "reform and opening" important key word, of course, and it was a relay race has been going on, including innovation markets, including equity, including the next, and so on.
Today, two key words in their mind and what would it be? First, Li Yang, Vice President of the Chinese Academy of social sciences, Premier Lee Hello.
Li Yang, Vice President of the Chinese Academy of social sciences:
How do you do.
If you selected a keyword, today, what would you choose?
Li Yang:
Did you say so many words a very critical, I'd prefer to have an evaluation of the word is that he is not responsible for a high hope. Don't take passengers down is not the whole party and the people of the so-called high hope, is not concerned about China's development of friendly people around the world a high hope.
We read in detail. The second guest, China (Hainan) reform and Development Research Institute Director, Mr. Chi Fulin. Late Premier Hello.
China (Hainan) reform and Development Research Institute Director Mr. Chi Fulin:
Hello Gansho.
What are your keywords?
Mr. Chi Fulin:
I quite agree with you about from the beginning, called a historic breakthrough, historic role. With the historical role of the judge.
1, Li Yang: promote the modernization of national governance systems and governance capacity, was a key decision we understand the plenary.
2, Li Yang: promote the modernization of national governance systems and governance capacity, is a comprehensive source of answers power, authority and power constraints.
Well, we go back to more interpretation. The first question to ask is Li, I note that today there are two lines, Plenary noted that a comprehensive deepening of note is the overall objective of the overall objective of the reform----first words, is the system of perfecting and developing socialism with Chinese characteristics. We know well enough. Second sentence, fresh, promote the modernization of national governance system and its governance capacity. This man news in my experience, rarely seen in the past, Li, advance the country's governance system, and capacity for governance modernization and development of the Socialist system with Chinese characteristics, entry to deepen the overall objective of the reform?
I think this sentence is very important to you, is that we understand the plenary session decided a point. This governance problem is should said is imported Word, recently years we compared more of with in global governance Shang, now in crisis process in the, global governance how improved, China how joined governance of a system in the, how guide global governance, we said of many, now this word into China and became party of file in the said is target, this is very worth we seriously to grasp has. Governance means a lot, as far as I got from this theory point of view there are at least two systems, one, is related to power sources, restriction of the exercise of power and authority, and this system. So-called sources will said you power is who to you of, but we on this answered is is certainly of, we of power is people giving of, then giving you this power you how to organization schema you of set system, to exercise this power involves party of organization, involves Government of organization, he parallel of and longitudinal of organization wait, this are is belonging to governance of a items content, then how makes Decree unblocked this is set system, third, is power of constraint, not by constraint of power is a corruption of roots, Power must be bound, as well as non-party party's constraints, constraint, constraint of public opinion, law, and so on, which in turn is a system. Is the total answer, power sources, the exercise of that power, as well as the restriction of the power of a system called the governance system.
But the governance system has modernized the three words.
Is modern so to speak, we are now introducing the word, it means we are not modern enough, we've everything that I just said, we've all more or less effort, and some do a good job, but viewed him as a system like that, it failed to do so, so we're going to do next.
Also says this reform the space is actually quite large.
Li Yang: promote the modernization of national governance systems and governance capacity: between Government, market and civil society, need to establish a harmonious and mutually reinforcing "1+1+1" a consequence of greater than three.
Quite big, also a it also has a latitude, is it involves Government, and market and citizens social this three who Zhijian of relationship, and he confirmed this three who of relationship, not zero and game, also not this consumer he rose, but a are and game, on said it objective Shang need in this three who Zhijian, established a harmony of mutual promoting of "1+1+1" is greater than three of a results, need has such a binder, to makes we of governance system produced maximum of effect. In this proposal, I think it is very good, this is what we just read the announcement and saw this, I think it is quite good.
Is quite new, and imaginary spaces, including considerable practice and reform in the future.
Study space and implementation of space is very big.
Okay, you talked about the relationship between markets and Governments and the relationship between the reform, what are we going to continue with the line later than Dean. Dean, I noticed that when you chat with the media a few days ago, you talked, particularly look forward to the development of our economy, a Government-led economic development, towards the market-led economic development steering through this bulletin, if you see such a shift and trends?
Mr. Chi Fulin: the decisive role of the market in the allocation of resources, is a significant breakthrough market-oriented reforms.
We see the announcement I am glad because notice there is a sentence, to focus marketing on a decisive role in the allocation of resources, this gives two signal: a signal, we strongly market-oriented reforms, who can do things in the market, to the market. Second a signal, government functions changes of direction, shouldn't Government tube of, not should Government tube, we to change Government led of growth way, and in economic life field implemented in market led Xia, Government of effective role, and not government led Xia, market of effective role, this for market dynamic, and economic dynamic, I think has decisive of impact, I think this is a we more than 20 years to, market reform of a major of breakthrough.
Does that mean that in the future, the game between the market and the Mayor, we are going to respect the market.
I've heard an official, he told me, he knows after this sentence, shouldn't we do things in the future, have to get to the market. The official response was very straightforward, and I like his reaction, in the economic sphere of life, role of market allocation of resources, very, very important.
I read this and some experience.
You said that the late President finished speaking, and let Premier Lee said.
Because, here presented, core issues of the relation between Government and market, and then played a decisive role in the market in the allocation of resources, in order to better play the role of Government, it is a prerequisite.
Not saying the Mayor and the market must be opposites, you talk about Lee.
I want to say is that the idea, he said markets would play a decisive role, refers to both the behavior of market players, which is the behaviour of corporations, or Government actions, must work together to pursue market principles. In other words, this thing on the market, we do not generally said, it is actually divided into many levels: the market is an institution, the market is a system, market or even an art form. We said, the market is a mechanism for the allocation of resources. Just say to participate in market economy activities, what we call the market economy. Enterprises in the market economy, there are individual, you must be in a Government position. However, no matter who, must comply with the rules of the market.
For example, this block to be done by the Government, by the State-owned enterprises to do, it also must become more efficient, the need to improve quality, also must be the protection of the environment, must also pay attention to concern about fairness, and so on.
I think, in this sentence, I read that between the common market and the Government, seeing it under a layer of stuff, together they're a
Is not able to mayors and markets must be opposites, but in future both the market, enterprises, and the other members of the community to participate in this process, all in the market and resource allocation, including common rules, it is very important that everyone cannot go against.
Economics of increasing efficiency, improving quality, environmental protection and so on who are these principles must be complied with.
Well, then we have to read stuff, but spare a thought for the people looking forward to what will be.
Facing 18 third plenary session, people have hope.
Reporter:
Do you have concerns which some aspects of reform?
Hangzhou citizen:
This piece of endowment insurance.
Residents in Shanghai:
Prices, of course.
Microview IP:
I am quite concerned about the health care reform programme.
Of most concern is the distribution of income.
Changchun citizens:
Three public funding in this regard.
Guangzhou citizens:
Relax restrictions on private enterprises to access this piece.
Facing 18 third plenary session, the State Council Development Research Center, at the end of last month, for the first time to the public,-18, submitted by the third plenary session of "383 reform programme", including Trinitarian thinking, eight key areas of reform, reform of three associated reform portfolio.
Continue to link Premier Lee.
Lee, what do you think about this constantly in the Communique stressed the efficiency of fair, efficiency and fair?
Equitable economic efficiency elements, no economic system must address both, but there is a certain contradiction. Therefore, efficiency is fair eternal Word. So, I noticed this when we talk about market plays a decisive role, spoke of the need to improve the efficiency of resource allocation and equity.
Usually my impression, market allocation referred to in textbooks and highlight its more efficient, less for its fair. Although some people are motivated by a desire to say, must be equitable, but the fact is, it won't be balanced fairly. Therefore, putting these two words together, at the same time, the corresponding set of systems to follow up, so that they can effectively solve the problem. There was the movie we just saw, when it comes to social issues, when it comes to health-care issues, when it comes to the question of income distribution, and so on, are to be addressed we have established a market economy system, and it is in some respects an ancillary system can resolve.
Premier Lee, there is a hot-button issue, I'm afraid we would shy away from it. For months, media, including many who are concerned about issues relating to urbanization, is a hot word. However, in today's bulletin, we see that more emphasis on urban-rural integration, this foundation comes to the healthy development of urbanization in the future, where there is a change, and the future of this, this is the kind of change and trends?
Li Yang: "urban rural integration" rather than simply "urbanization" more mature
Suggests that we view with more mature, being carried out before China a historical movement. Due to China's economic development today, traditional industrialization had been committed, industrialized now being undertaken. However, a movement that involves our relationship between urban and rural areas, resolve the tension between our urban and rural areas, this two-person economic mission, outstanding than ever. The past-we're talking about this issue not comprehensive enough, mean more us through town to address rural problems, it looks like the years of practice, in particular the recent time, showing that it biased.
From town to talk about the next step in terms of development, it may turn into a campaign, and it might infringe on the interests of farmers, and in the process, it is hard for us to solve a fundamental problem of urban-rural integration: greater efficiency, in particular, to improve land use efficiency, effectively raised such issues, and can effectively solve the difficulty. So, my experience is that the Central is really thinking very well thought out, are some of our main economic activities, and the relationship between them has made such a general concept of urban-rural integration, to Commander in urbanization, equalization of public service and the modernization of agriculture, next to such concepts.
In fact, urbanization is a process, is a means of urban-rural integration is an ultimate goal, now playing in front, can be more creative on the processes and tools, and may allow farmers to benefit, without losing interest.
Yeah, better co-ordination.
What we're going to drop points late Premier.
Late President, there are two very important issues, through the bulletin can bring out: first, central to deepening reform leading group was set up, what do you think of this behind the words and the reality of China, what kind of problems?
Mr. Chi Fulin: Central leading group was established to deepen reform: from design to promote reform on the top floor.
See this sentence, I was very happy. Because I and a number of other scholars, has repeatedly called for all these years, the reform to establish a high-level coordinating body. Because the reforms of China today, we say the depth, complexity, tough, is the central place to coordinate sectoral interests, interests, creating all kinds of relationships, so when we reform stressed that top-level design, driving is particularly important on the top floor. So, this time the Central Government decided to set up a comprehensive deepening reform leading group of the central level, which set up a high-level coordinating body more than ever before. Always, we are at the Government level, this time with the Party Central Committee. Second, in the past, we coordinated economic system, deepen the reform of a coordination mechanism. Third, the Party Central Committee stressed that not only, and the decision was made, party committees at all levels to play a role in co-ordinating reforms. So, after I listened to this is really glad.
On one hand, while with the first reform, a small reform movement can have a huge, positive effects. But now as we reform the accumulation of this volume is growing, may be a relatively big reforms, to promote it can be difficult. At this time, note this sentence today, combining top design and the stones, do you think have taken on either side of the small of the back of the times, but reform realized how to promote?
Yes, this decision should say by 2020 a schedule proposed by the overall design of the reform, the road map. And special important of and made has important of method, I wanted to this it in insisted reform of top layer design, top layer promoting of while, big direction clear, and insisted reform of such a practice, insisted reform of exploration, insisted reform of a mature a do a, pragmatic of reform reform action, I wanted to this makes we in reform, promoting reform of aspects further of mature has.
Then there is cable Lee Dean, Dean Lee, recently against 18 plenary session we are concerned about, such as the status of the private capital in private enterprise, in today's bulletin among your prospects how to see it, subtle changes in what happens between the lines is positive?
Li Yang: perfecting the property right protection system proposed for the first time, reflect the equal protection of property rights.
What I see now there is one is reassured us that is to perfect the property right protection system. My impression of the past are not so mentioned, of course, may we see the files there may be further explained and expanded, I feel the sentence is quite enough, because property rights protection, we are, of course, a lot of people can point to some private enterprise's capital, its rights could not be protected.
Fear, fear.
More point out that so many people have migrated overseas, simply because their property rights could not be protected. I as a financial researcher, I know lots of funds to Hong Kong and one from mainland China into Hong Kong came back, in the first place is to seek the protection of property rights, this issue is very big. From the protection of property right of State-owned assets was also not a very important one, a community with a lot of property, together constitute the Foundation of our society, a property cannot be protected, other property rights will likewise not be protected, so I think the bulletin reflects an equal protection of property rights in such a concept, I think this is the basis of our stability.
Everyone's sense of security to further market, with some of the core purpose of the property law was able to link up. Next ask late President a question at the end, you feel that there is a copy of the report, but I have just said, past a small policy, small changes can promote change, but now larger. What do you think about our next announcement and the subsequent decision of the good, in the reality of China's reform process forward to pay attention to? What do you look forward to the future?
Mr. Chi Fulin: reforms needed top design, need to be pragmatic, the need to break the interest.
Everyone looks forward to after this proclamation introduced, decision could be out soon, reform needs a top, top level to promote more practical action. Secondly, the reform needs to break the interests, certain sectoral interests on breaking industry and stakeholders to deliver on all aspects, so that people have confidence in the reforms. Third, the proposed reform today, fairness and justice, improve the well-being of people, now the system of governance governance capacity, these are the historic breakthrough of some important reform guiding ideology, want to have a more concrete and pragmatic programme of action.
Premier Lee, as you read the final draft for soliciting opinions, you can tell us more clearly, if compared to today's announcement that thousands of words, that decision is more informative.
Quench your thirst.
Pair.
But, to be honest, I saw the announcement, announcement is now finally out, finally passed at this stage, I have a heavy burden and responsibility. Because this bulletin also told we has said to established a coordination group, indicates that while principles determines has, direction determines has, but how to implementation a step step to implementation, also difficult, also needs we efforts, even some principles also needs materialized, you like just said of, how became a simple of town of of concept to a in urban and rural areas integration integrated development, this actually needs many people of thought concept of change, like protection property, from simple of said like is in protection private property, You have to take into account the issue of State-owned property rights protection.
Well, Dean Lee, why, we'll stop here. But today is just the beginning of a new starting line has been marked out, we very much look forward to China's reform better, faster.
央视《新闻1+1》2013年11月12日播出的《全面深化改革 全面启动》节目中，中国(海南)改革发展研究院的院长迟福林说：“公告有一句话，要紧紧围绕市场在资源配置中的决定性作用，这就给了两个信号：一个信号，我们坚定市场化改革的方向，凡是市场能做的事情，交给市场。第二个信号，政府职能转变的方向，不该政府管的，不应该政府管，我们要改变政府主导的增长方式，而在经济生活领域实行在市场主导下，政府的有效作用，而不是政府主导下，市场的有效作用。”节目实录：
评论员 白岩松：
你好观众朋友，欢迎收看正在直播的《新闻1+1》。
今天原本普通，但是我们非常期待，今天成为对于中国来说又是一个历史性的日子。如果今天下午闭幕的十八届三中全会，将使中国改革的进程变的更快、更好，并且格局更大的话，这一天注定进入历史。说起来很有意思，从十一届三中全会开始，由于他拉开了中国改革的大幕，因此，三中全会与中国改革进程之间的这种关系一直让人津津乐道。但是除去今天闭幕的十八届三中全会，以往有两届三中全会是闭幕得要更晚。一次就是拉开中国改革大幕的十一届三中全会是，12月22日闭幕，还有一次是1993年的十四届三中全会是11月14日。但是偏偏是这两次晚闭幕的三中全会，对于中国的改革进程来说至关重要。那么今天是第三次晚闭幕的三中全会，中国人常说“好饭不怕晚”，今天闭幕的三中全会将如何推动中国改革的进程，这碗饭接下来将如何变得更好呢？今天我们来关注。
群众1：
决定中国人命运的吧，大致都在关心。
群众2：
几乎是天天在关注，每天早上我都要看。
群众3：
有了解，经常听新闻，但是说实话不是很了解。
群众4：
咱们国家大事，能不关注嘛。
群众5：
关注这些国家政策能够推动这种改革的发展。
解说：
今天党的十八届三中全会胜利闭幕，改革新蓝图全面绘就，以走过35年的中国改革开放迈入新的时代。
白岩松：
一如既往，今天大会一闭幕就出台了公报，最长的公报是十一届三中全会时候，超过7000字，最短的是十二届三中全会只有500多字。那么今天的这个公报是介于这两个数字之间，几天之后将出台更细的通过大会的决定。但是说话听音，我们也许看到的只是一条新闻消息性的这种公告，但是专家却在字里行间，能看到对于未来的中国来说会有哪些变化。比如说关键词，我们说“改革开放”当然是重要的关健词，而且是一场接力赛一直在持续，接下来包括市场、包括公平、包括创新等等。
那今天两位嘉宾他们心目中的关健词又会是什么？第一位，中国社会科学院的副院长李扬，李院长你好。
中国社会科学院的副院长 李扬：
你好。
如果您会选一个关键词的话，今天您会选什么？
李扬：
你刚刚说的这么多词都很关键，我倒更愿意有一个评价性的词就是他不负重望。所谓不负重望就是不负全党全国人民的重望，也不负全世界关心中国发展的友好人士的重望。
一会我们在详细解读。第二位嘉宾，中国(海南)改革发展研究院的院长，迟福林。迟院长你好。
中国(海南)改革发展研究院的院长 迟福林：
你好岩松。
您的关键词是什么？
迟福林：
我很赞成你一开始讲的，叫历史性的突破、历史性的作用。要用历史的作用来评价。
1、李扬：推进国家治理体系和治理能力现代化，是我们理解三中全会决定的一个关键所在。
2、李扬：推进国家治理体系和治理能力现代化，就是全面的回答权力的来源、权力的行使以及权力的制约。
好，我们回头详细的解读。首先要问的是李院长，我注意到今天有两行字，全会指出全面深化改革的总目标——请注意是总目标——第一句话，是完善和发展中国特色社会主义制度。这个我们熟。第二句话就新鲜，推进国家治理体系和治理能力现代化。这个在我做新闻人的经验当中，过去很少见到，李院长怎么看待，推进国家治理体系，和治理能力现代化和发展中国特色社会主义制度，一样进入到全面深化改革的总目标当中？
我同你一样觉得这句话非常重要，是我们理解三中全会决定的一个关键所在。这个治理问题是应当说算是舶来词，最近几年我们比较多的用在全球治理上，现在在危机过程中，全球治理如何改善，中国如何加入治理的一个体系中，如何引导全球治理，我们说的很多，现在这个词进入中国并且成为党的文件中说是目标，这就是非常值得我们认真去领会了。治理的涵义确实很多的，据我从这个理论研究上来看至少是有两个体系，一、是涉及到权力的来源、权力的行使和权力的制约，这一套体系。所谓来源就要说你权力是谁给你的，但我们对这个回答是很肯定的，我们的权力是人民给予的，然后给予你这个权力你如何来组织架构你的一套体系，来行使这个权力涉及到党的组织，涉及到政府的组织，他平行的和纵向的组织等等，这都是属于治理的一项内容，然后如何使得政令畅通这是一套体系，第三，就是权力的约束，不受约束的权力是一个腐败的根源，所以权力必须约束，还有党的约束、党外的约束、舆论的约束、法律的约束等等，这又是一套体系。那么就是全面的回答、权力的来源、权力的行使，以及的权力的制约等等一套组织制度叫做治理体系。
但是在这个治理体系后面有现代化这三个字。
是，现代化其实可以这么说，我们现在才引进这个词，其实也说明我们还不够现代化，就是我们过去我刚刚说的这些事情，我们都或多或少做过努力，而且有的做的不错，但是把他当成一个体系来看待应当说还没有做到，所以我们下一步要做到。
也就说这里的改革空间其实还是相当大的。
李扬：推进国家治理体系和治理能力现代化：政府、市场和公民社会这三者之间，需要建立一个和谐的相互促进的“1+1+1”大于三的一个结果。
相当大，另外一个它还有一个纬度，就是它涉及到政府、市场和公民社会这三者之间的关系，而且他确认这三者的关系，不是零和博弈，也不是此消彼涨，而是一种正和博弈，就说它客观上需要在这三者之间，建立一个和谐的相互促进的“1+1+1”大于三的一个结果，需要有这样一套黏合剂，来使得我们的治理体系产生最大的效应。那么这个提法我觉得是非常好的，这是我们刚读到公告，看到这段就觉得还是比较好的。
非常新，而且这里想象的空间，包括未来的实践和改革的相当巨大。
研究的空间，落实的空间，都很大。
好，您刚才谈到了市场和政府之间的关系和改革之间的关系，接下来我们要继续连线迟院长。迟院长，我注意到您前几天在跟媒体聊天的时候，您特别谈到了特别期待我们经济的发展，由政府主导的经济发展，向市场主导的经济发展去转向，透过这个公报你是否看到了这种转变和趋势？
迟福林：市场在资源配置中的决定性作用，是市场化改革的重大突破。
我们看到公告我很高兴，因为公告有一句话，要紧紧围绕市场在资源配置中的决定性作用，这就给了两个信号：一个信号，我们坚定市场化改革的方向，凡是市场能做的事情，交给市场。第二个信号，政府职能转变的方向，不该政府管的，不应该政府管，我们要改变政府主导的增长方式，而在经济生活领域实行在市场主导下，政府的有效作用，而不是政府主导下，市场的有效作用，这个对于市场活力、经济活力，我认为具有决定性的影响，我认为这是一个我们二十多年来，市场化改革的一个重大的突破。
是否意味着今后，其实市场和市长之间的博弈来说，大家都要一起去尊重市场。
我今天听到一个官员，他跟我说，他听了这句话以后知道了，今后不该我们管的事情，要赶快交给市场了。这个官员的反应是很直接的，我和他的反应一样，在经济生活领域，市场的资源配置性作用，特别特别重要。
我读到这段还有一些体会。
您说，迟院长说完，然后让李院长说。
因为，这里提出了，政府和市场关系的核心问题，然后起到了市场在资源配置中的决定性作用，才能更好的发挥政府的作用，这是个大前提。
并不是说市长和市场一定要是对立的，李院长您谈。
我想说的是这个意思，他说市场要发挥决定性作用，是指的无论是市场主体的行为，也就是企业的行为，还是政府的行为，都必须共同追寻市场原则。也就是说，对市场这个事情，我们不要笼统的说，它其实分很多层次：市场是一种体制，市场是一个制度，市场甚至可以是一种艺术形态。我们这里说的，市场是一个资源配置的机制。只要说参与市场经济活动，我们叫做市场经济。市场经济中就有企业，就有个人，就一定也有政府的一定位置。但是，无论是谁，都必须遵从市场规则。
比如说，这块要由政府做，要由国企去做，它也必须提高效率、必须提高质量、也必须要保护环境、也必须注意关注公平，等等。
我觉得，我在这句话中，我读到，在通常的市场和政府之间，看到它下一层的东西，它们共同要追寻一个
就是不能够一提市长和市场就一定是对立的，而是今后不管是市场、是企业、还是社会其他的成员参与到这个过程当中，都要以市场和资源的配置，包括遵循共同的规则，这一点是非常重要的，谁都不能违背。
经济规律的提高效率、提高质量、环境保护等等这些原则是谁都必须遵从的。
好，接下来我们还有要解读的东西，不过来关注一下，民众的期待又会是怎样的。
面对十八届三中全会，民众心怀希望。
记者：
你有没有关注哪一些方面的改革？
杭州市民：
养老保险这一块。
上海市民：
当然是房价了。
微视网友：
医疗改革方案我还挺关注的。
最关注的就是收入分配。
长春市民：
三公经费这方面。
广州市民：
放宽民企的准入限制这一块。
面对十八届三中全会，国务院发展研究中心，于上月底，首次向社会公开，为十八届三中全会提交的“383改革方案”，包括三位一体改革思路、八个重点改革领域、三个关联性改革组合。
继续连线李院长。
李院长您怎么看待这个公报当中不断地在强调效率公平、效率公平？
效率公平是经济要素，任何一个经济体系都必须解决的两个，而且有一定矛盾的东西。所以，效率公平是永恒的词。那么，我注意到这次我们在讲到市场发挥决定性作用的时候，讲到了要提高资源配置的效率和公平。
通常我的印象，在教科书中要讲到市场配置，突出它的效率方面比较多，对于它的公平少一些。尽管有些人出于一种愿望说，一定要兼顾公平，但事实上，它是兼顾不了公平的。因此，把这两个词放在一起，同时还一整套的、相应的制度相跟进，这样才能够有效的解决这个问题。刚才我们看到的片子里边，说到社保问题、说到医保问题、说到收入分配问题，等等，都是要在我们建立的这样一套市场经济体系中要解决的，而且它都要有一些配套的制度才能够解决。
李院长，还有一个热点的问题，恐怕我们也回避不掉。这几个月以来，媒体，包括很多的人，都在关注关于城镇化的问题，是一个大热词。但是，在今天的这个公报当中，我们看到的更多的是强调的城乡一体化，在这个基础上去谈到了将来城镇化的健康发展，这里存在着一种变化吗，和未来的这种，这是一个什么样的改变和趋势？
李扬：“城乡一体化”比单纯的“城镇化”更成熟
表明我们更加成熟地看待，正在中国面前展开的一个历史运动。由于中国经济发展到今天，传统工业化已经委身，现在工业化正在展开。但是，另外一个运动，涉及到我们城乡之间关系，解决我们城乡矛盾，这个二人经济的这样一个任务，比以往任何时候都要突出。过去，我们讲这个问题不够全面，比较多的是说我们通过城镇化来解决农村的问题，看起来这些年的实践，特别是最近这一段时间，显示出它有偏颇。
从城镇化角度来谈下一步发展的话，很可能就会变成一个造城运动，而且很可能会侵犯农民的利益，而且在这个过程中，我们很难把城乡一体化所要解决的一个根本性问题：提高效率，特别是提高土地利用效率，这样的问题有效的提出来，并且能够有效解决很难。所以，我的体会是中央确实是在非常深思熟虑地考虑着，现在所有一些我们主要的经济活动，及其它们之间的关系，作出了用城乡一体化这样一个总概念，来统帅城镇化、公共服务均等化、农业现代化等，这样一些下一步的概念。
其实，城镇化是一个过程、是一个手段，城乡一体化是一个最终目标，现在把目标放在前头，可以对这个过程和手段进行更好的约束，而且可能使农民既得到利益，又不失去利益。
对，更好的统筹。
接下来我们要连线迟院长。
迟院长，有两个很重要的问题，透过这个公报也能显现出来：第一，中央要成立深化改革领导小组，您怎么看待这句话和背后针对中国现实的哪些问题？
迟福林：中央成立深化改革领导小组：从顶层设计推动改革。
看到这句话，我是十分高兴。因为我和其他一些学者，这些年一再呼吁，要建立高层次的改革协调机构。因为，中国的改革到了今天，我们说它的深刻性、复杂性、艰巨性，都在于要协调部门利益、中央地方利益、打造各种利益关系，所以我们改革在强调顶层设计的时候，顶层推动尤为重要。所以，这一次中央决定成立中央层面的全面深化改革的领导小组，这就建立了一个比以往更高层次的协调机构。以往，我们是在政府层面，这一次在党中央。第二，以往我们协调经济体制，全面深化改革的一个协调机制。第三，不但党中央强调，而且这个决定的提出，各级党委要在统筹改革方面发挥作用。所以，这个消息我听了以后确实是感到很高兴。
可以从某种角度说，改革初启的时候，一个小改革动作可能都带来巨大的、正向的效果。但是，现在随着我们改革积累的这种体积越来越大，可能相对大的改革举动，想推动它都可能比较难。这个时候，注意到今天的这句话，顶层设计和摸着石头过河相结合，您觉得是不是也扎在了时代的腰眼上，也是改革意识到该怎么去推动？
是的，这个决定里面应该说是到2020年改革的一个总体设计提出的时间表，路线图。而且特别重要的又提出了重要的方法，我想这个它在坚持改革的顶层设计，顶层推动的同时，大方向明确，又坚持改革的这样一个实践，坚持改革的探索，坚持改革的一种成熟一件做一件，务实的改革改革行动，我想这个使得我们在改革，推动改革的方面更进一步的成熟了。
接下来还是要连线李院长，李院长，最近一段时间针对十八届三中全会大家也在关注着关于，比如说民营企业民营资本的地位的问题，在今天的公报当中您看它的前景如何，发生了哪些字里行间发生微妙的变化是积极正向的？
李扬：首次提出完善产权保护制度，体现产权要平等的得到保护。
我看到的现在公布出来的东西有一句是非常让我们放心的，就是完善产权保护制度。这个我的印象过去没有这么提过，当然也许我们看到文件可能会有进一步的解释和展开，我自己觉得这一句已经很够了，因为产权保护，我们现在当然很多人可以举出一些比如说民营企业的资本，它的权利不能得到保护。
担心，害怕。
更多的会指出现在那么多人纷纷的移居海外，就是因为自己产权不能够得到保护。我作为金融研究者，我知道中国大陆的很多资金到香港转一圈变成港值回来，其实首先是寻求产权保护，这个问题是很大。其实从国有资产也是产权不能保护的一个很重要的一个表现，一个社会存在很多的产权，共同构成我们社会基础，一种产权不能得到保护，其它的产权同样也不会得到保护，所以我觉得公报里体现出一个产权平等的得到保护的这样一个概念，我觉得这是我们长治久安的基础。
大家的安全感才能进一步上市，跟《物权法》里头的一些核心宗旨才能够衔接起来。接下来最后要问迟院长一个问题，您觉得是有一份报告出台了，但是刚才我说过了，过去一个小政策，小改动都能推动大的变化，但是现在体积大了。您怎么看待接下来我们这个好的公告和接下来尤其的决定，在现实推进中国改革的进程当中要注意什么？您怎么期待未来？
迟福林：改革需要顶层设计，需要务实行动，需要打破利益关系。
大家期盼着这个公告出台以后，决定能够很快出来，改革需要一个顶层设计，顶层推动，更需要务实行动。第二，改革需要打破利益关系，一定在打破部门利益行业里和各个方面利益关系上有所作为，让人们对改革充满信心。第三，这个改革今天提出来，公平正义，提高人们福祉，现在国家治理体系治理能力，这些都是具有历史突破性的一些重要的改革指导思想，希望在这些方面有着更为具体的、务实的行动方案。
李院长，因为您看过最后决定的征求意见稿，您可以更清晰的去告诉我们，如果要是跟今天的公告这几千字比较起来，那个决定更加详实。
更加解渴。
对。
但是呢，说实话，我看到公告，公告现在终于水落石出了，终于这个阶段过去了，我更有一份沉重和责任感。因为这个公告也告诉我们了说要成立一个协调小组，表明虽然原则确定了，方向确定了，但是如何去落实一步步去实施，还困难重重，还需要我们努力，即使有些原则还需要具体化，你像刚刚说的，如何成为一种单纯的城镇化的概念到一个城乡一体化综合发展，这其实需要很多人的思想观念的改变，比如说保护产权，从单纯的说好像是在保护私有产权，你要考虑到国有产权有保护的问题。
好，李院长，时间的原因，我们就先说到这里。不过今天仅仅是一个开始，新的起跑线已经划出来了，我们非常期待中国的改革更好、更快。
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