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The author:(作者)qqpublished in(发表于) 2013/11/26 9:03:26 Only allowed to retire， academician， academician system distorted by reality
Narrator:the age of 80, had a hard time to retire.
Sound source: Academician Shen Guofang appraised: your banner is our school, you represent the development direction of our discipline.
Narrator: he will become the first truly retired academician?
Sound source: Qin Boyi, academician of Chinese Academy of Engineering: presumably I stick myself in there, I arranged the early who's going to pick me up.
Narrator: two retired people, a universal old age groups.
Shen Guofang appraised: some people act knowledge of aging, or talking to someone not on the idea, then retire.
Narrator: want to refund nonrefundable, it can't back off.
Qin Boyi: young to reveal more difficult.
Narrator:today the News 1+1 attention: Academician when to retire? How to quit?
Moderator in his:
Hello everyone, and welcome to live of the press 1+1.
In recent days, "retired" the term is often talking about the media and society, but it was made up of two elements, the first is the increasing pressures of ageing, as well as the old-age pension may also fall short, and worrying when, is to delay the retirement age for Chinese, became a hot topic, there is an objection, there was strong support, distinctly divided. Another "retirement"-related topics is not so clear, but all members agreed, that's why academicians should retire and exit, it's the ten adopted at the third plenary session of reform to articulate the meaning of this. But an interesting phenomenon, almost everyone supports fellows should have retired and out of the mechanism, but what's retirement and exit, but no certaint, we still don't know how to get this road should be.
Next through the story of two academicians, we touch the subject.
Narrator: as a member of nearly 1500 academicians in China, Shen Guofang appraised the recent media attention, academician of Chinese Academy of engineering. He just reaches the age of 80 for half a month, Beijing forestry University retirement wishes to serving units, but demand for elderly, the school did not give a definite answer.
Shen Guofang appraised: they give me celebrating the 80th birthday, I say simply, and I know I'm 80 years old, can I reduce weight. (Birthday), go talk with Secretary and President at the meeting, I said if I can consider my retirement.
Reporter: after you made such a wish, forestry College is how to respond to the head of your it?
Shen Guofang appraised: saying that Yes, you are our school banner, you represent the development direction or discipline you for our schools to comment, put forward some guiding opinions, they still have great expectations for me.
Narrator: Shen Guofang, who in 1995 was elected as academician of the Chinese Academy of engineering, served as a Vice President of the Chinese Academy of engineering, is currently his main who is also a professor at Beijing forestry University, China Council for international cooperation on environment and development of the Department of environmental protection, China's Chief Adviser, and three identities, academician of Chinese Academy of engineering work. For 80 years old man, which, obviously, some heavy.
Shen Guofang appraised: Chinese Academy of engineering on the one hand there are many strategic advisory research project, or under my chairmanship or mainly involved in, I need to do.
The other hand, the China Council for international cooperation on environment and development, I was China's Chief Consultant, this is also a pretty big workload, but I think 80 years old, although the body, but also to the process of growing old and want to be free.
Narrator: retirement reasons there are overwhelming social invitations.
Shen Guofang appraised: from lots and lots of other units, they have asked for I, repeatedly requesting for me to join in their will, wanted me to take part in the review, hoping to give their ideas, the activity too much. If I retired, I had a reason I said I retired, I have some things I could not attend.
Narrator: at the Chinese Academy of forestry University official website in the style column, the first is Shen Guofang appraised, said he and 12 other academicians is the best representative of Alumni beilinda, but they are rare talents and treasures.
Shen Guofang appraised: has cannot again played has, because personal has differences, some people recession early, some people recession have late, some people has performance of has knowledge aging, or talk not in ideas Shang, that on can retired has, is can more of respecting academician of volunteer, according to this situation to determines, national can set a stripes, but set a stripes can slightly flexible is, according to different of situation. We academicians, some more than 80 years of mind still clear it, the key problem is he has to speak out, we listen, fellow, fellow, better play the role, and meet fellow real personal circumstances are good.
Bai yansong: academicians in China is hardly a life tenure, but at 18 deepening reform decisions of the plenary session, but a fellow retirement and exit, so stories like old Shen, extra media attention these days. But this afternoon we interviewed at the hospital, the Hospital told us, is not as explicitly rejected media reports that school retirement demands, but so far, in fact, has not received a more formal retirement applications from elderly or orally, or in writing. Shen old is, I think, regardless of the schools, both may be true, old Shen said at my willingness to work will also cut, schools did not read as this is a formal application for retirement, if old Shen wants to formally apply, there would have to be a formal written process. Of course, what the school not to think about the next reply. So this should remove such a misunderstanding.
But for Shen-old retirement wishes, why media attention? Because this is the last few years, everyone in a matter of academicians of the very real concern.
We see two data, 2013 the total number of academicians not more than 1500 persons, aged mainly between 70 to 89 years of age. Such a number told us that science does contribute to longevity. But on the other hand, is when fellow of this age to go far, for Academician Wang Xuan, has left us, that is very hard. Academician of the Academy of engineering has up to 74.3 years average age.
We see the following data, in 783, academician of Chinese Academy of engineering, there were 5,610 part-time, part-time 7.2 per capita, we imagine that old Shen's body, he was too busy to come over? Old Shen is very much one of his peers, fellow of the Qin Boyi is one year older than him this year, but having been retired for nine years, was among the academicians of the Chinese, the only one who is officially approved to retire.
Narrator: reading, Internet, travel, writing, and occasionally attended the event, Qin Boyi is 82 years old is living a normal life. Nevertheless he is not ordinary, senior academician of the Chinese Academy of engineering, former President of the Academy of military medical. Although it has such a RANK, but Qin Boyi academician in 2004 made a shock decision when academic, retired from the military medical Academy locations.
Qin Boyi: I was around the age of 60 has been in life after retirement, according to the US Army's retirement age of 65 years, after I was elected fellow of the, well, of course, immediately retired at age 65, so I just dragged on for some time, to 72 years of official reports (retired).
Narrator: had caused shock in the academia, because before the Qin Boyi, fellow, has never had a precedent for retirement. Qin Boyi, academician of a paper application, allowing one organization does not know what to do with.
Qin Boyi: because the first time I touched this issue, we've no General Logistics Department can't do master, GLD Party Committee can't do anything, I do not know what kind of treatment. Later fed back to both Chambers, academician of both Chambers to refund the duties out. College leaders told me that if academician himself to retire, that's no reason not to let them retire, so back to the PLA general political Department.
Narrator: after retired from the Dean post, Qin Boyi academicians and ordinary elderly people have the same age.
Qin Boyi: I was joking now arranged, simple summed up in four words, "mountains and the lively conversation." Sightseeing tour I have been to the country, traveled around the country's famous mountains and the famous places of interest, wrote two travelogues. Rhetoric is what I want to be a freelance writer, observations and thoughts and I want to write. Have now completed is three, getting ready to write a book.
Narrator: in the other fellow's view, however, Qin Boyi elderly retired from the job, have become academicians in China from the isolated post to retire.
Qin Boyi: cultivating a lifetime lifestyle, work habits, and told him to stop, and indeed there are many psychological gap, but this difference is not just fellow, fellow, non-scientists, which will also drop.
Narrator: while public opinion on the mechanism of creation of fellow retired, retirement is high, but Qin Boyi academicians have different views.
Qin Boyi: supposedly accomplished scientists, whose retirement age is best to decide on their own, integrated system was not able to approach.
Narrator: can play continues, retirement wishes to retire, this is where Qin Boyi Academia Sinica hopes to change. And on the other hand, some academicians age but has not retired, it also has a social background factors behind it.
Fellow of the society pulled too high, some provinces or University Institute of competing with a high level of scientific research, such as charges, payment, yearly to battle for the fellow, luxury. Various tours, awards, seminars and review on academician unsolicited, and fellow, this is non refundable endlessly social.
Bai yansong: today I read that the Qin Boyi, academician of the qianjiang evening news interviews, finished after the interview, I told the gentleman very, very dear. Because the lines, I came up with a number of "academician Qin quotations", make a joke, you can tell who he is.
"Young people can't find work, you have to do to old, young people do? , "Qin said.
"I travel is their own pay, although me must do a lot of entertaining, but boring, we can't spend public money to do your own thing. "He just talked about, dropped out of his mountains, we see his data, 37 were listed as world heritage sites in China, 20 world geological parks, 110 names of history and culture, 187 national key scenic spots, the first batch of 30 national heritage, he alone and single such travel all travels.
"In fact we say fellow retired just retired from work, Academia Sinica as an honorary title, remains, like a ' model worker ', ' war hero ' title fight in his later years, honors or at. ”
We see old quotations in the Qin dynasty, "the Academician system this is not wrong, that reality was distorted, and I just want to be able to mass-Jie-Jie. ”
Famous Qin fellow's quotations, "academicians not eternal youth, but you must keep clear. ”
"The ' honorary ' looks like a vase, for people to see. People really like watching us, the rusty old vase, please? ”
The last one, "I hope fellow in community care, not fellow, then fried, FRY paste, academician of CAs, not a national blessing. "He is not referring to the media hype, but are competing to grab, and has nothing to do with him, fellow, about all kinds of things to find, followed by lines of Qin Boyi academicians. Fellow of the Qin Hello.
Qin Boyi: Hello.
Host: to honor you. Your retirement nine years ago, on the one hand you say mountains, this is an option for the life of the individual. But on the other hand, I noticed that for nine years and many academic activities relevant to your discipline, you have not denied, have been doing, you are still active and energetic?
Qin Boyi: this is the case, because I was more concerned to participate in this study, the less I concern gradually from research to science and education in our country, to our national policy approaches, more and more matters to consider.
Moderator: however has nothing to do with this possible for you, you now have to "retire" was strongly pushed out, right?
Qin Boyi: Yes.
Moderator: debt-free.
Host: today through your story we also focus, do you think this time has proposed fellow to retirement and exit mechanism, implementation what do you think is the better of the State?
Qin Boyi: this is the case, "academician" is a title, the title matter retired, just as "war heroes", "model worker" title is always a title. Fellow of the now retired, which is a "fellow" by man back his former Unit's advancedness, advancedness is post, a post is retired. Most ideal of scientists of retired age, best is by themselves master, like Newton, and Edison middle-aged yihou are not do research work has, like Franklin not only not do research work, and politics has, became United States founding of several main leaders one, United States of Constitution under, and independent declaration under, are is Franklin drafted of, do have is success, no said scientific research work will do lifetime. Opposite Madame Curie, Thomas Edison, till last, because their job is in development, and he does not stop. So in my opinion, preferably at their disposal. But in China, the ownership I think there can't do that, not only has its own was not prepared, nor ideas and arrangements for their old age, there are environmental restrictions around.
Moderator: what changes do you expect to happen?
Qin Boyi: I look forward to having a uniform retirement age, and then a gradual transition to adequate retirement according to the situation, and retired as a member of a perfectly normal phenomenon. Why would I retire? I didn't Dang academician yiqian old early in consider retired has, I 60 age before and after on consider retired has, army like we of Professor is 65 age retired, didn't thought 1962 engineering homes established, I on assessment Shang has academician has, bad immediately retired, but homes in has been knows I arrangements retired, arrangements retired to arrangements specific work, first put successor training up, to set down, to was received I of class, and they will do have than I better, I only assured retired. Later, at age 70, was in 2002 year officially to the reflected and oral reflection, 2004, official report, 2005. All natural, fully aware of what I'm thinking.
Moderator: fellow of the Qin dynasty, the last question, you have one sentence make everyone very deeply, said academicians should not be a vase, whether it comes from how you feel, or after finished is a reminder?
Qin Boyi: is a feel, I from 62 age Dang Shang Academician to 2002 70 age wrote this article articles, this 8 years during, I is is recognize seriously really of do social work of, later I gradually found, actually just Dang has a vase, I bored has, I not willing to again was people family vase has, I think I themselves has more has interest of, and more important of things is to do.
Moderator: is anyone going to use "fellow" of the word.
Qin Boyi: Yes, to be used to improve to get taste, add a bit of flavor, fun. I think when I finally just a dozen years to work, I don't like this environment, waste, people waste my life, I was a waste of valuable life, I don't want to.
Moderator: thank you for fellow of the Qin dynasty reminded, the last is a very easy question, the next destination, where you are going?
Qin Boyi: next destination, big place I've played everywhere, can be said to be an unprecedented act. I'm a little bit in the future, on the newly discovered or new comment on can also go a little, more is going to write something, because I was able to write reasonable time is not long.
Moderator: well, thank you fellow, Qin, thank you once again to you such a feeling of respect, thank you. Okay, next we'll be concerned after reading the story of two academicians, you can from the words of academician of Qin, both symbols of linguistic thought through fellow of the Qin dynasty language knows, in fact he thought really, really great right now, if you go on with no problem, but he quit nine years ago. But such a case, can become a worthwhile system of our future design? Our next concern.
Explanation: this year is the Chinese Academy of Sciences, academicians of Chinese Academy of engineering elected in alternate years, is close to the end of voting results are not yet final, but pending the results, there have been two news is something so intriguing.
(Sound source: the voice of the press November 15, 2013, the evening peak)
Wang Yucheng eye and ear, nose and throat hospital, Fudan University physicians:
Because it has 271 articles, declarations, academician of CAs, which now find 57 articles are not a formal research paper.
Narrator: Wang Yucheng is reported by his teacher, ear, nose and throat only academicians of academia today, Mr Wang Zhengmin, 78, and fellow of the report on the grounds that its reporting materials, many suspected of fraud.
Wang Zhengmin: this student told me basically a frame, false accusations.
Narrator: coincidentally, the Academician candidate in late October, Nanjing University, Faculty of math and science, school of physics, Professor Wang Mu charged another Academia Sinica academician candidate, ed School professor Wen Haihu alleged academic fraud, and out of consideration to avoid arousing suspicion, Wang Mu application even after the real reporting, quit the academicians elect.
(Phone interview)
Academician Gu Hai, Professor, Faculty of Economics, Renmin University long-term research system:
Actually, this is not the first time it comes to academicians and counterfeiting, or plagiarize the question, I should say, this time with a degree of certainty, it is certain to select a member of the election hotspots, sensitive period, perhaps in order to exert more pressure. Fellow, but there is a problem in itself, it is an inevitable problem.
Explanation: according to the regulations, when academician candidate elected, directly by the Academician candidate is recommended. B is made up of all the relevant scientific and technological research, the High School Association and China Association for science and technology which level, by organizational systems recommended candidates, and a recommended way, in the long-term study of the Academician system Gu Haibing, tends to breed a lot of drawbacks.
Gu Haibing: recommended by the relevant academic institutions, but there is one condition, first by the Government and ministries have a primary. So we are seeing a lot of official or entrepreneur, academician by ministries or provincial governments recommended candidates, so in this case, administrative power to the intervention of academician elections, in nature's doomed, fellow of the problem exists in the first place. So I have argued, is the academic matter should be solved academics themselves. So I think that should be separate from and administrative.
Commentary: let the academic honors began in the academic or regression, to administration may crack and now academician system is an effective way to realistic problems associated.
Bai yansong: deepening the reform decision, has spelt out a fellow retired include exit mechanisms, but in real life, how should retirement, how to quit? Xiong bingqi, Deputy Director the next line of the 21st century Education Research Institute. Bears Hello, President.
Xiong bingqi Vice President of 21st century Education Research Institute: Hello.
Bai yansong: how do you interpret how the next exit? How to retire it?
Xiong bingqi: if for their retirement and exit system, retirement is of a certain age, he should step down in academic positions, including academic posts at universities and scientific research institutions, as well as functions in the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the Academy of Sciences. This retirement, fellow of academic misconduct or criminal behavior, he should quit to be eliminated, no longer hold this fellow, which is pulled out.
Bai yansong: so you say retirement mechanism, is not a concept of our traditional understanding of this age, right?
Xiong bingqi: was that, he was with us the rest of our current fellow professor's retirement age is not the same as, after he was elected, he was tenured, and thus raised the issue of such a retirement. It seems to me, is in fact the interests of fellow of the issues behind it, as academician is the highest academic honour, and he was not supposed to talk to specific benefits, because there are benefits, leading academicians such reporting, management, exit, there were serious problems of interest.
Bai yansong: bears President, this problem you must have noticed, but Rob around his flesh the same fellow, Rob and want to go their own gold, how to tackle such a demand?
Xiong bingqi: actually is just I told of problem, actually was academician is a national supreme academic title, academic honors, now we in academic title or honors Shang, attached has many of academic interests and economic of interests, is because academician interests of has, led to all place including school, and research institutions, and government sector are in Rob academician, makes academician elected zhihou, he has many of interests accompanied which, led to has he of declared, and management are exists serious of interests of. So now, I think the crux of the problem is the academician of interest.
Bai yansong: good reasons, bear President only when it comes to this. Today we are sponsoring a question mark, you need to provide answers to real.
解说：80高龄，却难以退休。
声音来源：中国工程院院士 沈国舫：你是我们学校的旗帜，你们还代表了我们这个学科的发展方向。
解说：他为什么会成为第一位真正退休的院士？
声音来源：中国工程院院士 秦伯益：大概是有我自己的坚持在里头，我早早地就安排了谁来接我的班。
解说：两个想退休的老人，一个普遍高龄的群体。
沈国舫：有些人表现得知识老化，或者有些人说话不在点子上，那就可以退休了。
解说：想退不能退，该退没法退。
秦伯益：中青年的要露出头角比较难。
解说：《新闻1+1》今日关注：院士何时退休？如何退出？
主持人 白岩松：
您好观众朋友，欢迎收看正在直播的《新闻1+1》。
最近一段日子以来，“退休”这个词被媒体和社会常常议论，不过它是由两个内容构成的，第一个内容就是在老龄化的压力越来越大，以及养老保险可能还有所欠缺和令人担心的时候，是不是要延迟中国人退休的年龄，成了热门的话题，有人反对，有人坚决支持，泾渭分明。另一个与“退休”有关的话题可就不是这样的泾渭分明了，而是大家一致同意，那就是院士应该有退休和退出机制，这可是十八届三中全会通过的改革明确表达了这方面的意思。但是一个有趣的现象，几乎所有人都支持院士应该有退休和退出的机制，但是到底怎么退休和退出，可是一点准谱还没有，大家还不知道这条路应该怎么走。
接下来通过两个院士的故事，咱们碰碰这个话题。
解说：作为我国近1500名两院院士中的一员，中国工程院院士沈国舫近日备受媒体关注。半个月刚刚年满80岁高龄的他，向所任职的单位北京林业大学提出退休意愿，但是对老人的要求，校方却没有给出明确的答复。
沈国舫：他们要给我庆祝80岁生日，我说要简单一点，同时我说我也到80岁了，也可以给我减少一下工作分量。在(生日)会上跟书记、校长一块谈，我说是不是可以考虑我退休的事。
记者：您当时提出这个意愿以后，林业大学的负责人是怎么回应您的呢？
沈国舫：说的是那怎么行啊，你是我们学校的旗帜，你们还代表了学科发展方向，你还要为我们学校或者学科发表意见，提出一些指导的意见等等，他们对我还有很多期望。
解说：沈国舫，曾在1995年当选为中国工程院院士，曾担任过中国工程院副院长，目前他主要身兼北京林业大学教授，环保部环境与发展国际合作委员会中方首席顾问，和中国工程院院士三个身份的工作。而这些对于80岁的老人来说，显然有些繁重。
沈国舫：一方面是中国工程院有很多战略咨询研究项目，或是我主持，或是主要参加的，还需要我去做。
另一方面，是中国环境与发展国际合作委员会，我是中方首席顾问，这个工作也是有挺大的工作量，但是我觉得到80岁了，虽然目前身体还好，但总还要有逐渐衰老的过程，因此想解脱一下。
解说：退休的理由还有应接不暇的社会邀请。
沈国舫：来自好多好多其它的单位，他们对我有要求，不断提出来希望我参加他们的什么会，希望我参加什么评审，希望给他们出什么主意，这种活动太多。如果我退休了，我有一个理由，我说我退休了，我有一些事情我可以不参加了。
解说：在中国林业大学官方网站院士风采一栏中，第一个就是沈国舫，称他和其他12名两院院士是北林大最优秀的校友代表，更是国家的珍贵人才和宝贵财富。
沈国舫：已经不能再发挥了，因为个人有差异，有的人衰退早，有些人衰退得晚，有些人已经表现的有知识老化，或者说话不在点子上，那就可以退休了，是不是可以更多的尊重院士的志愿，根据这个情况来确定，国家可以定个杠杠，但是定个杠杠可以稍微灵活一点，根据不同的情况。正是我们院士里边，有的80多岁脑子还清楚得很，关键的问题还得他出来说话，大家还比较听，对院士来说，对更好发挥院士的作用，同时又适应院士的实际个人情况，是有好处的。
白岩松：院士几乎在中国是一个终身制的，但是在十八届三中全会通过的深化改革决定当中，可是有了院士的退休和退出机制，于是像沈老这样的故事，这几天当然格外的被媒体关注。不过下午我们和院方进行采访的时候，院方告诉我们，并不像媒体报道那样学校明确拒绝了老人退休的要求，而是事实上到目前为止，并没有接到比较正式的来自老人或口头、或书面的退休申请。我想可能不管沈老还是学校，这两方面可能都没错，沈老当时说减减我的工作的意愿也是意愿型的，学校没有解读成这是一个正式的提出退休的申请，如果沈老想要正式的提出申请，恐怕还得有一个正式的书面的过程。当然，接下来学校才会去思考该有怎样的回复。因此在这块应该消除这样的一个误解。
不过对于沈老提出退休的意愿，媒体为什么格外的关注？因为这的确是近几年，大家在关注两院院士非常现实的一个问题。
我们看这样两个数据，2013年两院院士的总数不超过1500人，年龄主要集中在70岁到89岁之间。这样一个数字告诉我们，从事科学事业的确有助于长寿。可是另一方面，是不是当了院士到这个岁数还能出成果，用已经离开我们的王选院士的话来说，那几乎很难了。工程院的院士平均年龄已经高达了74.3岁。
我们再来看下面一个数据，在783名中国工程院院士中，共有5610个兼职，人均兼职7.2个，我们把它想象到沈老的身上，他忙得过来吗？于是沈老就特别羡慕他的一位同行，今年比他大一岁的秦伯益院士，不过人家已经退休了九年了，是全中国的两院院士当中，唯一一个被正式批准退休的人。
解说：看书、上网、旅游、写作，偶尔出席活动，已经82岁的秦伯益正在过着普通的生活。然而他的身份却并不普通，中国工程院资深院士，曾任军事医学科学院院长。虽拥有如此显赫的身份，但秦伯益院士却在2004年做了一个令当时学界震动的决定，从军事医学科学院院长的位置上退休。
秦伯益：我是60岁前后就已经安排在退休后的生活了，本来按我们军队的退休年龄是65岁，我当选了院士以后，当然也不好马上65岁就退，所以就拖了一段时间，到72岁正式打报告(退休)。
解说：之所以在学界引起震动，是因为在秦伯益之前，还从未有过院士退休的先例。秦伯益院士的一纸申请，一时让组织不知如何处置。
秦伯益：因为第一次碰到这个问题，我们院里做不了主，总后政治部也做不了主，总后党委也做不了主，不知道怎么个处理法。后来反馈到两院，请两院看看院士要退本单位的职务行不行。事后有院领导跟我说，如果院士自己要退休，那也没有理由不让他们退休，因此就这样回了总政治部。
解说：从院长岗位退休后，秦伯益院士拥有了与普通老人一样的晚年生活。
秦伯益：我现在的安排开玩笑的，简单的来概括八个字，“游山玩水、高谈阔论”。游山玩水我是踏遍了全国，游历了全国的名山大川和著名的名胜古迹，写了两部游记。高谈阔论就是我想做一个自由撰稿人，想把我所见所闻、所思所想写写。目前已经完成的是三本，准备再写一本。
解说：然而在其他院士看来，秦伯益老人从工作岗位上的退休，却成了我国院士从岗位退休的孤立。
秦伯益：一辈子培养的生活习惯、工作习惯，叫他一下子停下来，确实心理上有很多落差，但是这种落差不光是院士的，非院士的科学家里头，这种落差也同样会有的。
解说：虽然目前舆论对建立院士退休、退休机制的呼声很高，但秦伯益院士却有不同的看法。
秦伯益：按说有成就的科学家，他们的退休年龄最好是他们自己决定，统一的制度是不得以的办法。
解说：能够发挥能力的继续，有愿望退休的退休，这是秦伯益院士希望改变的地方。而另一方面，有的院士年事已高，却也并未退休，这背后也有社会背景的因素。
社会把院士拔得太高，一些省市或高校研究院竞相用高额科研启动费、安家费、年薪等来争夺院士，装点门面。各种考察、颁奖、座谈和评审，也对院士邀约不断，这是院士不退不休的社会土壤。
白岩松：今天我读到了《钱江晚报》对秦伯益院士的一段采访，看完采访之后，我对这位老先生非常非常的尊敬。因为字里行间，我总结了好几条“秦院士语录”，开个玩笑，就能看出他的为人。
“年轻人都找不到工作，你要干到老，年轻人怎么办？”秦老说的。
“我旅行都是自己掏钱，虽然我打招呼肯定到处有人招待，但是没意思，我们不能花公家的钱去做自己的事。”他刚才讲了，退了以后他游山玩水，我们看他的数据，37个被列为世界遗产的景点我国的，20个世界地质公园、110个历史文化名称、187个国家重点风景名胜区、首批30个国家遗产，他一个人，而且是单人的这种旅行，全部游遍。
“其实我们说院士退休只是从工作中退下来，院士作为一种荣誉称号，可以一直保留，就像‘劳动模范’、‘战斗英雄’这样的称号，晚年不战斗了，荣誉还是在的。”
我们再来看秦老的语录，“院士制度本没有错，就是现实中被扭曲了，我只希望能够质本洁来还洁去。”
著名的秦院士的语录，“院士不能永葆青春，但是必须永保清白。”
“‘终身荣誉’倒像一只花瓶，供人观赏。人们真的喜欢观赏我们这些锈迹斑斑的古旧花瓶吗？”
最后一个，“希望社会上爱护院士，不要再炒院士了，把院士炒糊了，不是国家的幸事。”他指的不是媒体的炒作，而是你争我抢，与他无关、有关各种各样的事情都往院士这找，接下来连线一下秦伯益院士。秦院士你好。
秦伯益：你好。
主持人：向您致敬。九年前您退休，一方面您说是游山玩水，这属于个人生命的一种选择。但是另一方面，我注意到这九年与你本学科有关的很多学术活动，您一直没有拒绝，一直在做，您是退而不休啊？
秦伯益：是这样，因为与本研究有关的我是越参加越少了，我现在关注的问题逐渐从原来的研究工作到我们国家的科教事业，到我们国家的政策方针，到越来越更多的是国家大事的考虑了。
主持人：但是与此无关的原来有可能找您的事，您现在都以“退休”一词坚决的推掉了是吧？
秦伯益：是的。
主持人：然后无债一身轻。
秦伯益：是。
主持人：其实今天我们也透过您的故事在关注，您觉得这回提出了院士要有退休和退出的机制，您觉得怎样实施才是比较好的状态呢？
秦伯益：是这样，“院士”是一个称号，这个称号无所谓退休，就像“战斗英雄”、“劳动模范”，称号在的永远是个称号。现在说的院士退休，是拥有“院士”称号的人退掉他原单位的本职岗位，本职岗位是职务，这个职务是退休的。最理想的科学家的退休年龄，最好是由自己掌握，像牛顿、爱迪生中年以后都不做研究工作了，像富兰克林不仅不做研究工作，而且从政了，成为美国开国的几个主要领导人之一，美国的《宪法》、《独立宣言》，都是富兰克林起草的，做得很成功，没有说科学研究工作就要做一辈子。而相反居里夫人、爱迪生，一直做到生命的最后，因为他们的那些工作正在发展当中，他也确实停不下来。所以我的看法，最理想是自己掌握。但是在中国，自己掌握我觉得目前还做不到，不仅有自己没有思想准备，也没有晚年生活的思想和安排，也有周围环境单位等等的限制。
主持人：您期待发生什么样的改变？
秦伯益：我期待先是要有一个统一的退休年龄，然后逐渐过渡到根据情况来适当退休，把院士退休看成一个非常正常的现象。我为什么退休？我没当院士以前老早就在考虑退休了，我60岁前后就考虑退休了，军队像我们的教授是65岁退休，没想到1962年工程院成立，我就评上了院士了，不好马上退休，但是院里一直知道我安排退休，安排退休要安排具体工作，首先把接班人培养起来，要定下来，要有人接我的班，而且他们会做得比我更好，我才放心退休。后来到了70岁，就是2002年我正式向院里反映，口头反映，2004年正式打报告，2005年正式批下来。一切很自然，院里头完全了解我的这种想法。
主持人：秦院士，最后一个问题，您成为有一句话让大家印象非常深，说院士不应该是花瓶，这是否来自于你的感受，或者写完了以后是一种提醒？
秦伯益：是一种感受，我从62岁当上院士到2002年70岁写这篇文章，这8年期间，我是很认认真真的做社会工作的，后来我逐渐发现，其实只不过当了个花瓶，我厌烦了，我不愿意再被人家当花瓶了，我觉得我自己有更有兴趣的、更重要的事情是要做。
主持人：就是别人要利用“院士”这两个字的。
秦伯益：是的，让被人利用想提高一点品位、增加一点学术味道，没意思。我觉得我最后就是想十几年可以工作的时候了，我不愿意这样的环境当中浪费，人家是浪费青春，我是浪费可贵的晚年，我不愿意了。
主持人：非常感谢秦院士的提醒，最后是一个极轻松的问题，下一个旅游目的地，您是要去哪？
秦伯益：下一个目的地，大的地方我已经都玩遍了，可以说是前无古人的。我今后小一点的，新发现的或者新评上的还会去补一点，更多的是要写东西了，因为我能够头脑清楚的写的时间也不长了。
主持人：好，非常感谢秦院士，谢谢您，再次表达向您的这种尊敬之情，谢谢。好，接下来我们就要关注看完了这两位院士的故事，您也能从秦院士的话语当中，不管是语言思维的象征，透过秦院士的语言就知道，其实他现在的思维也非常非常棒，如果继续干也没有问题，但是九年前他就辞掉了。但是这样的一个个例，能成为我们今后值得借鉴的制度设计吗？我们接下来共同关注。
解说：今年是中国科学院、中国工程院两院院士增选的年份，已经接近年底，投票结果还没有最终出来，但在结果出来之前，相继发生的两则新闻则颇有些让人耐人寻味。
(声音来源：中国之声《新闻晚高峰》2013年11月15日)
王宇澄 复旦大学附属眼耳鼻喉科医院医师：
因为它有271篇论文，申报院士，其中现在发现有57篇都不是正式研究论文。
解说：王宇澄所举报的是自己的老师，当今耳鼻喉学界唯一一名中科院院士，现年78岁的王正敏，而举报的理由是其申报院士的材料当中，多处涉嫌作假。
王正敏：这个学生对我基本上就是一个诬陷、诬告了。
解说： 无独有偶，10月底中科院院士候选人，南京大学物理学院教授王牧指控另一名中科院数理学部院士候选人，同校教授闻海虎涉嫌学术造假，并出于避嫌的考虑，王牧在实名举报后甚至提出申请，退出院士增选。
(电话采访)
顾海兵 中国人民大学经济学院教授长期研究院士制度：
实际上这已经不是第一次涉及到院士造假，或者是抄袭剽窃等等这样的问题，应该说这个时机是带有一定的必然性，另外它肯定要选择一个在院士选举比较热点、敏感的时期，也许他为了施加更大的压力。但是院士本身存在问题，这是一个必然问题。
解说：根据规定，我国院士候选增选时，候选人一是由院士直接推荐。二是由国内各有关科学技术研究机构、高等全校和中国科协所属一级协会，按组织系统推荐候选人，而后一种推荐方式，在长期研究院士制度的顾海兵看来，往往容易滋生很多弊端。
顾海兵：由有关的学术机构推荐，但是有个条件，他首先得由政府和各部委有一个初选。所以我们这样就看到了很多官员或者企业家，通过部委或者省级政府推荐成为院士的候选人，所以这样的话，行政力量对院士选举的介入，在天然的注定，院士在一开始就存在了问题。所以我一直主张，就是学术界的事情，应该是学术界自己来解决。所以我觉得应该和行政分开。
解说：让学术荣誉始于学术也回归学术，去行政化也许是破解目前和院士制度伴生的现实问题的一个有效途径。
白岩松：深化改革的决定当中，已经明确说出了院士退休包括退出的机制，但是现实生活中到底应该如何退休、怎样退出呢？接下来连线21世纪教育研究院的副院长熊丙奇。熊院长您好。
熊丙奇 21世纪教育研究院副院长：你好。
白岩松：您是怎么解读接下来该如何退出？怎样退休呢？
熊丙奇：如果单从退休和退出制度来看，退休指的就是到了一定的年龄，他应该从学术岗位上退下来，包括在大学和科研机构的学术岗位，以及在中科院和科学院担任的职务。这个退休的话，如果院士有学术不端或者违法犯罪的行为，他应该退出要被淘汰出来，不再担任这个院士，这就是退出了。
白岩松：也就是说您说的退休机制，并不是一个我们传统理解的这种年龄概念是吗？
熊丙奇：是，应该来讲，我们目前的院士他跟我们其他的教授的退休年龄不一样，一般他现在当选之后，他一直是终身制的，因此大家提出了这样的一个退休的问题。而在我看来，这背后其实是院士的利益化的问题，因为本来院士是一个最高的学术荣誉，他其实不应该跟具体的利益挂钩，因为有利益挂钩，导致了院士这样的申报、管理、退出都存在严重的利益化的问题。
白岩松：熊院长，这个问题您也一定注意到，但是各地在抢唐僧肉一样的抢院士，要往自己这贴金，怎么去解决这样的需求？
熊丙奇：实际上就是刚才我讲的问题，其实本来院士是一个国家最高学术头衔，学术荣誉，现在我们在学术头衔或者荣誉上，附加了很多的学术利益和经济的利益，正是因为院士利益化了，导致各个地方包括学校、科研机构、政府部门都在抢院士，使得院士当选之后，他有很多的利益伴随其中，导致了他的申报、管理都存在严重的利益化。所以说现在我觉得最关键的问题是去院士利益化。
白岩松：好，时间的原因，熊院长只能说到这了。今天我们是共同提出问号，需要现实提供答案。
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