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The author:(作者)hpmailerpublished in(发表于) 2013/11/30 9:38:06 Officials said fires in Jixian， Tianjin is one thing， damned heart lies
Without professional training and accumulated for a long time to really understand the political documents of the Communist Party of China, it is almost impossible. Domestic and foreign think tanks and scholars have developed a habit, capturing subtle wording changes in the communiqué of the meeting of constantly transform perspective and dimension to try to make their own interpretation of the political code look more credible.
But people still remember, truth discussion, history, problem resolution, small talks earlier had is how to strike the heart--transmitted by contrast revealed a certain fact: attenuation and CCP's theory innovation efforts in reform and opening up, carefully between the lines showing the changes difficult.
"The anxiety of our scholars, is seeing political parties themselves thinking abnormal changes and updates to the ideological and theoretical difficulties, back themselves into trouble. "CAI Xia ladies talk about the theoretical evolution of the Chinese Communist Party Central Party School Professor, expressed concern.
Long talk on November 9, Chua I combed through 2000, the CPC breakthroughs in theory binds several efforts, as well as the obstacles encountered and confused. Dull obscure theories expressed in our opinion, very important for party scholars tend to, in her words, "theory is the soul of the party".
She tells about her previous academic course, shows a recovery of the original spirit of Marxism scholar image. Theory of antiquity like attempt intended to tell people, even within the lineage of the theory of the Communist Party, there are many possible.
The party spirit
CAI Xia's academic ideology and democracy, since more than 20 years old, she was teaching at school almost 40 years. In the public sphere, her sharp and direct, often refreshing thirst for "party School Professor," cognition.
When meeting reporters, Chua continued to apologize for being late, it would not seem alienated, talk to have a low voice, often immersed in, and logic to express complete near-obsession, can not tolerate the slightest interruption.
Teaching democracy, CAI Xia from general principles to begin, contrasting democratic France revolution and British and American traditions, summed up communist "democratic" historical limitations "for democracy, students naturally accepted." On more than one occasion, students communicate privately and said to her, "Chua, you should go and talk to executives about. ”
"I just laugh, assigned about what lessons, I'll say what lessons, I am not willing to attend booklet in accordion form with a slipcase. "CAI Xia said.
The Central Party school is the training cadre of the Chinese Communist Party's highest institution, officials from Central Party school education, means that your career looks promising as a result, when school teachers in the students thesis, "tend to be pretty calm". But in a youth upon completion of the class, is promoted to Vice-ministerial level students on network management published one informed opinion, "fires in Jixian, Tianjin, then a little thing on the Web into a big business, stirring people's hearts. We need to strengthen management. ”
CAI Xia incessantly "precious thing you think is trivial, community will certainly think it is a very big deal, we did on the lives of ordinary people's feelings? "Students don't say anything, teachers a great sense of tension underneath the desk quickly grabbed CAI Xia. "I gave it the student rate is very low. I feel your feelings for the people of extremely cold, it's not a views different, is the conscience? ”
Around 2002, CAI x to a speech in the province, "three represents". Chatting over lunch, "farmer give his two acres of land to feed was not bad," Director of the municipal Guest House look very impatient, complaining that targets rural cadres, farmers bicycle hit cadre, "farmer is diao min. "If masses didn't handle well? CAI Xia said one sentence, CPC long right now, "you should normally very busy, spent too much time in Beijing, right? "CAI Xia said," all of which come from not a farmer? ”
Professor CAI Xia, staring at me, motionless, appears to have returned to the scene of the time, "now some cadres of people's feelings have changed and the change reflects changes in feelings, party school teachers resolutely cannot compromise on the issues of principle. ”
Cadre group perspectives and positions are increasingly diverse, sometimes problems erupt heated debate. To clarify the "majority rule is democracy", CAI x cited example of Nazism and the cultural revolution, "cultural revolution in the name of the majority against the minority cadres, was actually tyranny of trampling on human rights. ”
Discussion session, participants stood up, "spoke of democracy and tyranny of the majority, and I was wondering if you could cite examples of China's cultural revolution, and so you. Party name party! ”
"You talk about the cultural revolution, I'll tell you about the cultural revolution. I was a Red Guard, our devotion to the revolution of the heart, into a frenzy, causing a lot of damage, I'll take making apologies, but my kids listen to telling stories of the cultural revolution. The party's history how can you avoid these 10 years of twists and turns? "Party school last name party" also includes summary and reflections on the lessons of history. Deprived of memory, historical errors will do it again in a new way, and now some of them popular during the cultural revolution practice as innovation, precisely what we cannot agree to. "With that, participants ' applause lasted a few minutes, this is their way of expression of approval.
Some time later, her words can also cause concern, that she explained that "our House to my generations follow the Communist Party, our party is a natural blood relationship in the hope that the party good country people and good, not simply political consciousness. ”
Puzzle and solution
CAI Xia's grandfather was attending a senior party member of the revolution, after the team was beaten, Pan Hannian as liberary in northern Jiangsu and Shanghai. Her mother, uncle, aunt and have participated in the Communist army, is typical of a revolutionary family.
As a child, CAI Xia lives on the army compound, being descendants of the revolution, she says she has never enjoyed status privileges, for example, even in the snow as a maternity hospital, father is not allowed to use and enjoy the car, but sitting in his tricycle, cover the layers of the quilt, by guards carrying home.
"When the older generation revolutionary, a pursuit of ideals and faith, after the triumph of the revolution, most demanding veteran child, do not dip glazing. "Long red flag, accepted the Orthodox education of revolutionary traditions, CAI x life path and peers the same.
The second day of that year, CAI Xia station of the red guards in Tiananmen Square, looking at Mao Zedong's convertible crawled over, after three days, the hoarse voice could not say a Word. "Publicity about Chairman Mao Ross: a radiant, at that time we thought it was an adjective, wait to see Chairman Mao really was so, Ross: a radiant. "This is the clearest details in memory of her day," only later understood, people can wear make-up. ”
In 1992, the Central Party school before studying for a master's degree, CAI Xia in the armed forces, State-owned enterprises, engaged in political work of County party school 17 years ago. In his doctoral thesis, she used in political science, philosophy, and theoretical research on humanistic values of the Communist Party, "as political parties to study, start thinking to break the sacred, from propaganda to real academic. ”
In 2003, CAI Xia with party school to participate in writing the platform for learning the important thought of three represents, albeit for a short time, but let her know the party, some aspects of thought. "There are 15 chapters, each divided into several smaller, I get is ' Party building ', actually had to do was follow the already good sub-headings, go to General Secretary Jiang Zemin's speech, only do textual connections, without explanation. Actually becomes a compilation of quotations. ”
In CAI Xia seems, "three a representative" thought is once bold tries to, face last century 90 generation yihou China social by occurred of fast and deep of changes, Communists tries to with with modern democracy of vision regarded changes has of China, efforts liberation thought, achieved from Revolution Party to ruling party of history transformation, but but Andriy Shevchenko a made, on attracted questioned: is to becomes Democratic Socialist?
"Theory of political courage and courage was not enough, was questioned on snatched, in fact theories were difficult to move, then, is disappointed. "CAI Xia said that Deng Xiaoping 's" no debate "has been distorted for the dangers of not thinking, theory construction couldn't break through, it is difficult to interpret reality, resulting in the ruling party's Word is extremely weak.
"At least from the research on party building, we are very concerned. "CAI Xia observed that the anxiety of the ideological Department of the ruling party, is even more direct and specific, that is, on the social objective of multi-how? Network how to run? "We need to have more courage, open space of liberation, to break up the long-standing thinking, in-depth study of the General rules for the development of human civilization, and its reality in China, let go of the world view, don't be afraid to absorb the reference to the beneficial achievements of human civilization. ”
She was later produced by ideological research turned to democracy in transition, because the "ideological turn very difficult, not academic prosperity can promote considerably." In 2008, CAI Xia Spain visits, study of Spain after the political transition, and links to the real situation in China when she was oppressed and caught for six months of anxiety.
Reading, thinking, she tried for anxiety to find solutions, "State can peace to advance the democratization process, depends on the growth and development of society itself, the ability to grass-roots party organizations should nurture and guide society, enabling society to organize. "Starting from 2011, with her in a street of Beijing, to develop" party rule by "experimental budgetary democracy, who explained the Robert's Rules of Order.
All participated in the streets after democratic practice, Professor CAI Xia optimism born out of hope, "we felt understanding of democracy became a reality, recognizing that democracy is a mechanism of consultation of interest. ”
Officials in a college class. Cadre group increasingly pluralistic views, positions, and sometimes broke out in a classroom heated debate
Dialogue CAI Xia
Ideology must be inclusive
People weekly: How do you define yourself? The Marxists?
CAI Xia: "Marxist" is too high.
People weekly: does not refer to evaluation of specific terms within the party, ideologically.
CAI Xia: then I was. Some people call me a fundamentalist-Marxist, and I don't agree that I am hopes to rethinking Marxism within the party, and not pushed to the extreme, dogmatic Marxist. I believe in the Marxist ideology, theory, method, try to observe the society.
People weekly: Judging from the articles and comments, your idea seems to be closer to that of liberal scholars, such as perceptions of freedom and democracy.
CAI Xia: why? The ideological theory of Marx and Engels always is about the destiny of man, speaking of the German ideology, "we are talking about who is living in the real, flesh-and-blood person. "Marx says Communism is" coalition of free men "," each of the free and comprehensive development of the individual, is the free and comprehensive development of all conditions. "Every person" in the "owners" in front of me.
When your understanding of people fall into the "everyone" who when thinking is bound to promote everyone's right to a point of origin. System not reasonable, socially fair, and no longer speak the majority or minority in the abstract, but everyone can be respected and protected. From the populist tyranny of the majority, and authoritarian repression of the right for everyone, in limited power on the one hand, I would have favoured restricting public power.
People weekly: mean proceed from Marx's original, but also leads to this conclusion?
CAI Xia: well, of course. Rich broad ideas of Marxism, we do not have comprehensive reach out and grab it, my class has been speaking, our understanding Marxist theory is distorted.
Why this situation? First of all, is the difference between Eastern and Western cultural thought, thinking of China's cultural tradition, different from commodity culture, commodity culture is the voluntary exchange on the recognition of individual rights, so it's special focus on individual rights, the spirit of contract, fair exchange, stressed that individual. Traditional farming culture's understanding of people in the East, is a holistic understanding of a country's people, party, people, group of people, stressed the authoritative, easy to use people as a tool, human subjectivity easily frustrated.
A second reason is the fall of civilization, Marxism in Western capitalism, that is, height development of commodity economy on the basis of ideological crystallization, at that time we are small-scale peasant economy, unable to understand the results of civilization on the soil of commodity economy, including human rights, competition-win game theory and rational. In addition, when Marx came to China, in the historical context of national survival, according to Marx's analysis, are manifestations of class conflict as ethnic conflicts, so the class struggle theory works well. Over time, the Chinese Communists ' theory of Marxist theory of class struggle as a whole. Mao Zedong once said that Marxist truth complex is all one word, "rebel rational."
A history of Marxism into China, with associated path. In my view, the Party accepting Marxism in history, there will be two boom, one cultural movement, the "revolution" one gun shot, the impact of the thought leaders of the Communist Party, "South-North-Li and Chen". We naturally put Soviet revolutionary leaders serve as role models, theories of interpretation as the correct ideological foundation of the Soviet Union.
Second is the Yanan rectification movement, the party popularity is explained to Stalin's version of Marxism, is required reading for senior party cadres of the Communist Party (Bolshevik) of CPC, this perspective is precisely historical interpretations into a conceptual thing, smoke is "human". Tried to explain that I would be particularly against Stalin, Marxism, it eventually evolved into a maintenance tool of authoritarian ideology, rather than promoting social progress, social justice and the public interest of the ideological weapon.
People weekly: so now what happens to theory building within the party? Did involve turning your problems?
CAI Xia: the theory of the party building there is a big problem right now. How to understand Marx's theory, is a persistent problem, present into two extremes: one is stubbornly holding Stalin distorts Marxism, regarded as the mainstream ideology, it will suffocate the vitality of a political party. Second was the belief that Marxism cannot explain, have been unable to guide the party, so may as well throw it away. Party without ideological and theoretical guidance of governing party plainly is a carrier of the carrier of ideological, social forces, it was formed in pursuit of a political philosophy, political objectives, without theory, the party's soul will be gone, the party was over.
Thinking is the same to both views and regard Marxism as omnipotent, myths of Marxist, not dialectical view of Marxism. Rational view of Marxism, what I feel is not clinging to the Marx said, but rather to grasp the Marxist method of analysis, logic, as well as what he stands to see problems.
Transformation of the ideology of the ruling party itself is difficult, there is also a mechanism of interests and vested interests of the politically correct slogan, block to emancipate the mind, stop us to think scientifically what Marxism is, what to do about this problem of Marxism.
People weekly: I just mentioned, a lot of people is the traditional theory difficult to explain social reality at the same time, Central stressed the need to seize the ideological positions.
CAI Xia: opening yihou, to has market 90 generation fast development yihou, China social of interests multi differentiation, thought concept also must is diverse multi of, a party to wanted to expanded ruling of social thought based, will makes ideology has inclusive sexual, including put emerging class in the of some excellent talent absorbed to ruling party inside to, I think CPC is has courage of, it can from modern political civilization, and modern social of development trend angle regarded China social of changes, so mention has "three a representative".
People weekly: now the party field direction is at the forefront of what? In the aftermath of the scientific concept of development, theory will continue to refer to "three represents" the macro and strategic level?
CAI Xia: I think it should be to work along these lines, but did not get, always lift it out. Although this decade, the ruling party has a lot of work, but solutions are on the surface, the less difficult issues, but stayed deep contradictions of his. Decade focused on policy responses, on the theoretical height, fall short.
Party or populist-minded
People weekly: you also talked over the network, worried about populist ideas, do you worry that China developed a bad democracy?
CAI Xia: I, too, because the populist mood, not to mention the society on the bottom, in fact, present also in the ruling party, but this sense of populist sentiment and populist party may not be clearly aware.
People weekly: what?
CAI Xia: look at our party, our understanding of democracy is so simple, when our party got up, did not distinguish between democracy and populism. Under the influence of thousands of years of cultural tradition of autocracy, toward populism rather than to move towards democracy.
For instance, what most people said yes, both elected and appointed in vote, only ticket is on the surface, it seems that democracy, in fact, is a populist. Voting on the surface, but it's not announced on the spot, announced by the majority when, in the name of is actually still the will of a few people. The majority and the minority on the surface of the will to power, is wonderfully together. Objectively, formed the negative effects are very large.
On the cadre issue is, when dealing with social conflicts, in order to quell the discontent, quickly turn a cadres removed, why? Cadre is not a problem? Defects regardless of institutional mechanisms, institutional mechanism for cadres as scapegoats, sacrificed.
There are projects that, in order to meet the community's public mood, resulting in decisions freely changeable. Bone in favour of vested interests, but external tools, under the influence of populist sentiment, with comfort, cater to, in fact, it was kidnapped by populist, right? Scholars worry that I worry about, official and public opposition, as we all are populist thinking.
People weekly: there is no scientific and rational decision making process?
CAI Xia: Yes, because legal authority did not, did not form different interest groups within the framework of the rule of law mechanisms of rational game and been kidnapped by vested interests and populist decisions easier.
There is also a problem, most of our intellectuals and entrepreneurs calling for democracy and rule of law, but also must not lose sight of, capital press is also very cruel to the underprivileged people. But now the situation is much lower for the Mao era Miss praised Chongqing model, because the underlying social direct perception of power and capital of the double squeeze, what he wants is more powerful than ordinary power and capital of greater power, call list, call myungeun.
Scholars therefore calls upon two things: one is in front of the power, we all ought to work towards democracy. Second is do not shun social justice issues, to apply the democratic rule of law curbing capital of underlying interest of the occupation.
People weekly: Central Party school to public, mystery, you mentioned that it was more a political body, more scholarly research right now?
CAI Xia: both, party schools whole in moving to a stronger academic, research questions should be used more fully, but not academic to academic, because the problems now facing the CPC is too complicated, social transformation is never seen in the history of China, you will want to go with previous existing ideas, Western theories of the same by the Central Party school teacher attention.
Now of party teachers both academic training, to has party and because teaching needs, must concern reality of social problem, which a teacher if just told books of knowledge, cadres students immediately on will told you, this things light on books settlement can't; if you aside books theory, completely told reality problem, you told but cadres, they understanding of reality than you knows of more have more. This forced to combine your theoretical and practical issues will it be possible to offer views and ideas for leaders ' reference.
People weekly: teaching, teachers could intentionally avoid the party school and cadre trainees of different perspectives are disputed?
CAI Xia: Yes, there are two, the first student to give it to the lecturer, teaching quality is divided into an important basis. Second, schools often put students at the Center, teacher to student services, when something requires first and foremost teacher. Then in recent years that some students lack of moral cultivation, a teacher's point of view is not his fancy, some piece of development to the classroom teacher, can't continue.
Then the school realized, the problem is two-fold, be sure to encourage teachers from their point of view, students can have different views and peaceful discussion, but cannot be destroyed with instruction. Is about twice that of school management Department, Education Department, training department talked to students, trainees and apologise to the teacher.
(This paper published abridged)
Source: Southern people weekly
如果不经过专业训练和长时间的积累，要真正读懂中国共产党的政治文件，几乎是不可能的事。国内国外的智库、学者已经养成了习惯，在会议公报中捕捉微妙的措辞变化，不断地转换视野和维度，力图使自己对政治密码的解读看起来更加可信。
但人们仍然记得，真理大讨论、历史问题决议、小平南巡讲话曾是如何的直击人心——传播层面的反差道出了某种事实：改革开放和中共理论革新的力度在衰减，字里行间的审慎显示了变革之难。
“我们学者的焦虑，是看到政党本身的思维转变、意识形态和理论的更新异常困难，反过头使自身陷在困境当中。”中央党校教授蔡霞女士谈及中国共产党的理论演进，表达了这样的忧虑。
11月9日的长谈，蔡教授向我梳理了2000年以来，中国共产党在理论上突破束缚的几重努力，以及遭遇的阻碍和彷徨。在我们看来枯燥难解的理论表达，对党建学者来讲往往事关重大，用她的话来说，“理论是一个政党的灵魂”。
而她对自己以往学术历程的讲述，则展示了一个追索马克思主义原初精神的学者形象。托古改制般的理论尝试意图告诉人们，即使是在共产党理论的谱系之内，也存在着诸多可能。
党性
蔡霞的学术方向是意识形态和民主政治，从二十多岁开始，她在党校执教将近40年时间。在公共领域，她的言说犀利、直接，常常刷新人们对“党校教授”的认知。
见到记者时，蔡教授不住地为迟到表示歉意，倒也没有因此显得疏离，讲起话来声音不大，常常沉浸其中，对表达的逻辑完整近乎执着，丝毫容不得打断。
讲授民主，蔡霞会从一般原理说起，对比民主的法国大革命传统和英美传统，总结出共产党人“民主观”的历史局限，“对于民主，学员顺理成章就接受了”。不止一次，学员私下交流时对她说，“蔡教授，您应该去跟高层领导讲。”
“我就笑，领导布置讲哪堂课，我就讲哪堂课，我不愿意上折子。”蔡霞说。
中央党校是中国共产党培养干部的最高学府，官员到中央党校进修，就意味着仕途看好，也因此，党校教师在学员论文答辩时，“一般都比较平和”。但在一次中青班结业时，有即将晋升副部级的学员对网络管理发表了一通宏论，“天津蓟县大火，那么个小事情在网络上搞成好大的事情一样，搅和人心。我们需要加强管理。”
蔡霞按捺不住，“人命关天的事情你们认为是小事，社会当然认为它是大事，我们对老百姓的生命有没有基本的感情？”学员不吭声，一旁的老师大感紧张，在桌底下赶忙拽着蔡霞。“我给那学员打分很低。我感觉你对人民的感情极淡漠，这不是思想观点不同，是良心何在？”
2002年前后，蔡霞到某省宣讲“三个代表”。午饭时闲聊，“农民给他两亩地让他吃饱肚子就不错了，”市委招待所所长表情十分不耐烦，抱怨说干部下乡，农民就把干部自行车砸了，“农民就是刁民。”是不是干群关系没处理好？蔡霞问了一句，市委宣传部长立刻接话，“你平时应该很忙，在北京的时间多吧？”蔡霞问，“在座的哪个祖上不是农民？”
蔡霞教授盯着我，一动不动，似乎回到了当时的场景，“现在一些干部对老百姓的感情变了，称呼改变反映了感情的改变，党校老师在原则问题上坚决不能退让。”
干部群体里观点、立场日益多元，有时会就问题爆发激烈争论。为澄清“多数人统治就是民主”，蔡霞举了纳粹和文化大革命的例子，“文革当中以多数人的名义对于少数领导干部进行侵害，其实是践踏人权的暴政。”
讨论环节，有学员站起来，“讲到民主的多数人暴政，我当时就在想你会不会举中国文革的例子，你果然就举了。党校姓党！”
“你说到文革，我就来跟你说说文革。我当时是红卫兵，我们怀着对革命的虔诚之心，陷入疯狂，造成了很多伤害，我一辈子带着歉疚，但是我的孩子听文革跟听故事一样。党的历史怎么能回避这10年的曲折？“党校姓党”同样包含对历史教训的总结和反思。剥夺记忆，历史错误就会以新的方式再犯，现在有些人就把文革中流行的做法当成创新，恰恰是我们不能赞成的。”说完，学员的掌声持续了数分钟，这是他们表达赞同的方式。
一些时候，她的言论也会引起学校关注，对此她会解释说，“我们家到我祖孙三代跟着共产党，我们对党是天然的血缘感情，是希望党好国家好人民好，不仅仅是简单的政治觉悟。”
困惑和求解
蔡霞的外公是参加过一次大革命的老党员，队伍被打散后，跟着潘汉年充当苏北和上海的交通员。她的母亲舅舅姨姨也都参加了中共军队，是典型的革命家庭。
小时候，蔡霞生活在军队大院里，身为革命后代，她说自己从未享受过身份带来的特权，例如，即使在大雪天作为产妇出院，父亲也不允许使用他的配车，而是坐在三轮车里，盖上层层棉被，由警卫员载着回家。
“老一代革命的时候，有理想有信念有追求的，革命胜利以后，大多数老干部对子女要求极为严格，都没有沾上光。”长在红旗下，接受正统的革命传统教育，蔡霞的人生轨迹和同龄人别无二致。
初二那年，红卫兵蔡霞站在天安门广场，看着毛泽东的敞篷车缓缓开过，之后的三天，哑了的嗓子没能说出一句话。“当时宣传讲，毛主席神采奕奕、红光满面，我们当时以为是形容词，等到见了毛主席，真的是那样，神采奕奕、红光满面。”这是她当天的记忆中最清晰的细节，“后来才明白，原来人是可以化妆的。”
1992年进入中央党校攻读硕士学位之前，蔡霞在军队、国企、县委党校从事政工工作17年之久。在博士论文里，她用政治学、哲学、人学理论研究共产党的价值观问题，“把政党当作对象去研究，就开始破除神圣化的思维，从政治宣传走向真正的学术。”
2003年，蔡霞跟着党校领导参与《三个代表重要思想学习纲要》编写，尽管是很短的一段经历，但让她了解了党内某些方面的思维特点。“一共是15章，每一章分几个小点，我分到的是‘党的建设’，实际要做的就是按照已经列好的小标题，去找江泽民总书记的讲话，只能做文字上的连接，不做解释。实际上就变成了编纂语录。”
在蔡霞看来，“三个代表”思想是一次大胆尝试，面对上个世纪90年代以后中国社会所发生的快速而深刻的变化，中共试图用用现代民主政治的眼光看待变化了的中国，努力解放思想，实现从革命党到执政党的历史转型，但但甫一提出，就招来质疑：是不是要变为民主社会主义？
“因为政治勇气和理论勇气还不够，一遭质疑就缩了回去，事实上后来理论就难以往前推进，是落空了。”蔡霞说，邓小平提出过的“不争论”，有被扭曲为不思考的危险，理论建设始终无法突破，难以解释现实，造成执政党的话语能力极为薄弱。
“至少从搞党建研究来讲，我们是很焦虑的。”蔡霞观察到，执政党的意识形态部门的焦虑，则更直接和具体，那就是，对社会客观存在的思想多元怎么看？网络怎么管？“我们需要拿出更大的勇气，打开思想解放的空间，打破长期以来的主义思维，深入研究人类文明发展的一般规律，及其在中国的现实表现，放开眼界，大胆吸收借鉴去人类文明的有益成果。”
她后来逐渐由意识形态研究转向民主政治转型，因为“意识形态转身非常困难，相当程度上不是学术繁荣可以推动的”。2008年，蔡霞到西班牙考察，研究了西班牙政治转型之后，联系到现实中国的情况时候，她心情沉重，又陷入长达半年的焦虑当中。
阅读、思考，她试图为焦虑寻解，“国家能不能和平推进民主进程，要看社会本身有多大的生长发育能力，基层党组织应该培育和引导社会，使社会能够组织起来。”从2011年开始，她与北京市某街道合作，开展“党群共治”，实验预算民主，还请人讲解了罗伯特议事规则。
全程参加了街道的民主实践后，蔡霞教授生出了乐观的希望，“大家把对民主的理解变成了现实的感受，认识到民主是利益协商的机制。”
官员们在某干部学院上课。干部群体里观点、立场日益多元，有时会在课堂上爆发激烈争论
对话蔡霞
意识形态应具有包容性
人物周刊：你怎么定义自己？马克思主义者？
蔡霞：“马克思主义者”太高了。
人物周刊：不是指党内评价的特定词汇，从思想上来看。
蔡霞：那我是。有些人把我叫作原教旨马克思主义，我也不同意，我是希望党内能够重新认识马克思主义，而不是把马克思主义推到极端、教条。我信仰马克思主义的思想、理论方法，努力去观察社会。
人物周刊：但是从文章和言论来看，你的主张似乎更接近于自由派学者，比如对自由民主的看法。
蔡霞：为什么？当时的马克思、恩格斯思想理论始终是关于人的命运的，《德意志意识形态》当中讲，“我们所说的人是现实中的活生生的、有血有肉的个人。”马克思说共产主义是“自由人的联合体”，“每一个人全面而自由的发展，是所有人全面而自由发展的条件。“每一个人”放在“所有人”的前面。
当你对人的理解落到“每个人”身上的时候，就必然把每个人的权利提升为思考的原点。制度合不合理、社会公不公平，不再是抽象地讲多数人还是少数人，而是每个人能不能得到尊重和保障。面对来自多数人的民粹暴政，以及专制对每个人权利的压制，在限制权力这一方面，我肯定就倾向了制约公共权力。
人物周刊：是说从马克思原典出发，也会导向上述结论？
蔡霞：当然了。马克思主义丰富博大的思想，我们没有全面地去把握，我讲课时一直在讲，我们对马克思主义的理论是扭曲地理解了。
为什么变成这种状况？首先是东西方文化思维的差异，中国的文化传统形成的思维，不同于商品文化，商品经济文化是确认个人权利上的自愿交换，所以它特别注重个人权利、契约精神、公平交换，强调的是个人。东方传统农耕文化对于人的理解，是整体地理解成国家的人、党的人、集体的人，必然就要强调权威，容易把人当成工具，人的主体性容易失落。
第二个原因是文明时代的落差，马克思主义是在西方资本主义，也就是商品经济高度发展基础上的思想结晶，我们当时是小农经济，无法理解商品经济文明土壤上的思想成果，包括人的权利、竞争共赢、理性博弈。另外，马克思传入中国时，处在民族生死存亡的历史背景下，按照马克思的分析，是以民族矛盾形式表现出来的阶级矛盾，因此阶级斗争理论就好用。久而久之，中国共产党人就把阶级斗争理论看作是马克思主义理论的全部。毛泽东曾经说过，马克思主义的道理千头万绪，归根到底就是一句话，“造反有理”。
再一个跟马克思主义传进中国的历史路径有关系。我认为，中国共产党接受马克思主义在历史上有两次热潮，一次是新文化运动，“十月革命”一声炮响，影响了当时中共的思想领袖，“南陈北李”。我们天然地就把苏联的革命领袖奉作榜样，把苏联解释的理论看成正确的思想基础。
第二次是延安整风，全党普及的马克思主义是斯大林解释过的版本，党内高级干部的必读书就是《联共(布)党史》，此观点恰恰把历史解释成一个概念性的东西，抽掉的就是“人”。我特别反对斯大林解释过的马克思主义，它最终演变成维护专制的意识形态工具，而非推动社会进步、实现社会公平和公众利益的思想武器。
人物周刊：那现在党内的理论建设状况怎样？有没有涉及你谈到的问题？
蔡霞：现在党内的理论建设存在很大问题。怎么理解马克思的理论，是始终存在的难题，现在走向两个极端：一种是顽固地抱着斯大林扭曲了的马克思主义，奉为主流意识形态，那只能窒息一个政党的思想活力。第二种是认为马克思主义已经不能解释了，已经不能指导这个党了，所以还不如丢掉。治党治国不能没有思想理论做指导，政党说白了是一个意识形态的载体、社会力量的载体，它是追求一种政治理念、政治目标而形成的，没有了理论，党的灵魂就没有了，党心就散掉了。
这两种看法的思维是相通的，都把马克思主义看作是无所不能的，神话马克思主义，恰恰没有辩证地看待马克思主义。理性看待马克思主义，我觉得不是抱住马克思当年说了什么，而是要抓住马克思分析问题的方法、逻辑，以及他站在什么立场上去看问题。
执政党意识形态的转型本身十分困难，此外还存在一个利益机制的问题，既得利益打着政治正确的口号，阻挡解放思想，阻挡我们科学地去思考什么是马克思主义，怎么对待马克思主义这个问题。
人物周刊：刚才提到，很多人感到传统理论很难解释中国社会现实，与此同时，中央强调要抢占意识形态阵地。
蔡霞：改革开放以后，到了市场经济90年代快速发展以后，中国社会的利益多元分化，思想观念也一定是多样多元的，一个政党要想扩大执政的社会思想基础，就要使意识形态有包容性，包括把新兴阶层中的一些优秀人才吸纳到执政党里面来，我觉得中国共产党是有勇气的，它能够从现代政治文明、现代社会的发展趋势角度看待中国社会的变化，所以提了“三个代表”。
人物周刊：现在党内理论界研究的前沿方向是什么？在科学发展观之后，会不会继续把理论水平提到“三个代表”的宏观和战略高度？
蔡霞：我觉得应该是往这方面努力，但是目前做不到，始终提不出来。尽管这十年当中，执政党有很多努力，然而解决的都是表面上的、不那么难的问题，而把深层次矛盾的东西都留下来了。十年间注重了政策层面的对策，在理论高度上，有所欠缺。
党内也有民粹思想
人物周刊：你在网络上也谈到过，担心民粹思潮，你是否担心中国发展出劣质民主？
蔡霞：我也会，因为这种民粹情绪，不要说是底层社会，其实在执政党内也是存在的，只不过这种民粹情绪和民粹意识，党内可能都没有清晰意识到。
人物周刊：这怎么讲？
蔡霞：你看我们在党内，我们对民主的理解这么简单，我们的政党起来的时候，就没有把民主和民粹分清楚。受几千年的专制政治的文化传统影响，容易走向民粹而不是走向民主。
比如，什么东西都是多数人说好，无论是选任和委任都在搞投票，表面上唯票是举，好像是搞民主，其实是民粹。表面上投票，但是并不当场公布，宣布的时候就借着多数票的名义，实际上仍然是少数人意志。把表面的多数票和骨子里的少数权力意志，很奇妙地结合在一起。客观上形成的负面效应是非常大的。
在干部问题上是这样，在处理社会矛盾的时候，为了平息民怨，立马就把一个干部免职，为什么？那么被处理的干部是不是有问题？不问体制机制的缺陷，把干部当成体制机制的替罪羊，牺牲掉了。
还有工程项目上，为了迎合社会公众的情绪，造成决策随意多变。骨子里是偏向于既得利益的，但是外在的处理手段，受民粹情绪影响，通过安抚、迎合，其实它是被民粹绑架，对不对？所以学者们担心，我也担心，官方和民间看起来对立，其实大家都是民粹思维。
人物周刊：没有科学合理的决策机制？
蔡霞：对，因为法制权威没有起来，没有形成不同利益群体在法制框架内理性博弈的机制，所以决策容易被既得利益和民粹绑架。
还有一个问题，我们大多数的知识分子和民营企业家呼唤民主法治，但也不能不看到，资本对社会底层老百姓的压榨也是很残酷的。但现在的状况是不少底层民众对毛时代很怀念，推崇重庆模式，就是因为底层社会直接感受到的是权力和资本的双重压榨，他所希望的是比一般权力和资本更强势的更大权力，呼唤清官，呼唤明君。
因此学者们要呼吁两个东西：一个是在权力面前，我们都应该朝着民主方向去努力。第二个是不能回避社会公正问题，要运用民主法治遏制资本对底层群体的利益侵占。
人物周刊：中央党校对公众来讲有神秘色彩，你提到它过去更多是一个政治机构，现在更多倾向学术研究了吗？
蔡霞：兼而有之吧，党校整个都在转向学术性更强，研究问题要更透，但不是为学术而学术，因为中国共产党现在面对的问题太复杂了，社会转型是中国历史上从来没有面对过的，你必然要去借助前人已有的思想，西方的理论同样被中央党校的老师重视。
现在的党校教师既有学术训练，到了党校又因为教学需要，必须关注现实的社会问题，哪一个老师要是仅仅讲书本的知识，干部学员立马就会告诉你，这个东西光谈书本解决不了；如果你撇开书本理论，完全讲现实问题，你讲不过领导干部，他们了解的实际情况比你知道的多得多。这就迫使把你的理论和现实问题结合起来，才有可能提出观点和思路来供领导干部参考。
人物周刊：教学当中，党校教师会有意避免和干部学员发生不同观点的争执吗？
蔡霞：对，有两条，第一条学员要给老师打分，教学优良以打分为重要依据。第二条，学校里面往往都是把学员放在中心地位，老师是为学员服务，一旦有什么，首先要求老师。后来这几年发现有些学员修养不够，一听到老师的观点不合他的意，有些发展到课堂上当面指责老师，课就讲不下去。
后来学校意识到，问题是两方面的，一定要鼓励老师讲出自己的观点，学员有不同意见可以平和讨论，但不能破坏教学秩序。大概有两次是这样的，学校管理部、进修部、培训部找学员谈话，学员再给老师道歉。
(本文发表时有删节)
来源：南方人物周刊
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