HP to buy back two days failed, however, due to missing packing in return-HP, aftermarket, computer-IT news
Consumers on the 1th store spend more than 8,000 yuan to buy HP desktop computer, suddenly two days just automatically shut down, never open again, calling for "7 days, no reason to return", the seller replies "no package does not return", to maintenance and accidents that should replace the motherboard. Consumers are once again requested return, sellers ignored. Of the 315 every day focus: HP computer had just bought two days fail, why do businesses just keep changing?
Authorities wide nets in Beijing May 20, according to the economic voice of the 315 reported every day in 2014, the new law on protection of consumer rights and clearly defined, consumers were shopping with "7th no reason to return the" rights. But the actual consumption, "return in the 7th" easier said, some dealers set up "barriers", which many consumers at the time of exercise of this right, and obstacles. For example: when dealers require consumers to apply for return, have to provide good packaging, would not be able to return; some dealers provisions, packaging, incomplete, damaged or returned goods, and individual e-commerce platform for 7 days, no reason to return conditions are, the product will not power on trial, even they cannot be separated. These businesses can set conditions as a reason for merchants refused to return? To focus on one case.
Shanghai consumers Lee, April 1th, shop online shopping platform by the end of this year on the company named "HP computer shop" shop, spend more than 8,000 yuan to buy a HP in one computer, upon receipt of the goods, Mr LEE love tried a little computer, everything is normal, will box at the door of the door.
One thought is, computer failure the next day, on May 1, Mr Zhang when playing games is happy, the computer suddenly shutdown, and can no longer boot.
Michelle Rhee:April 30 delivered to our home, April 30 afternoon we spent the morning of May 1, May 1, machines not displaying, black screens and can not open the machine.
Reporter: before automatic shutdown, is surfing the Web or what?
LEE: my husband might have used the computer to play the game, play the game called "Street ball" occupy a very small space. In his play during computer and suddenly a black screen, then how come she can't power on reset.
Consumer first sent to HP computer repair, maintenance personnel learned that computers use only two days, will remind users that they can apply for "7 days, no reason to return." Lee April 27 to buy computers, arrival, 30th, May 1, will apply to the sellers, shop and 1th replacement. Sellers reply can return, but to ensure that the packaging intact, no room for negotiation. Zhang remembered threw the box outside the door, go out, the box has disappeared.
Lee ladies: we no thought machine will problem, so on will outside packaging put in corridor inside, recycling waste of aunt may thought we is don't of garbage, on directly put it sold has, this may is I himself negligence has, I no thought, but I think for consumers for, impossible I buy has machine, I on thought it must will bad, I on put that packaging left in home, this also is unlikely to reality.
Can't change can only repair, consumers again repaired computer, HP maintenance repair computer, give a surprise to consumers of the results, it's "Board is broken, need to replace the motherboard." Consumers believe that they bought from computers may be defective, so she again contact seller strongly demands a return, sellers, manufacturers do not take "bare-metal" again refused on the grounds. Lee and contact manufacturers, manufacturers of replies, consultations have helped, but the seller does not agree to return, that is to say do not return business, independent of the manufacturer.
LEE: I think businesses sell my product is defective, I would not accept a replacement motherboard, so this link is on hold. I said I will not accept a replacement motherboard, I negotiate with the dealer and see if we can replace the machines, but after communicating with dealers, dealer contended that there is no outer package he was unable to give me the replacement machine. I later no approach, I on directly and 1th, shop of official customer service made contact, they side help we generated has a business adjustment single, we with dealer and HP made has contact, dealer side also is not let go, HP side has a customer relationship experience Management Department of von Miss on and I contact has, we probably contact had 2 to 3 times, von Miss said dealer now of attitude very tough, on said no outside packaging strongly not to we replacement. Feng Xiaojie to communicate with dealers also proposes a solution, he said dealers would start a machine to Shanghai, then we test the machines have no problem before we bought the machine in question directly to the package, and then returned to the dealer, but dealers strongly disagree, so we really have no way of solving this problem.
Consumer information provided an audio recording of evidence, recording, the HP maintenance staff are telling consumers, computer motherboard to fix you must want to change.
Reporter: now in addition to change the motherboard, there is no other way to solve it?
Maintenance staff: no, because this thing is broken.
Reporter: you must change the motherboard, right?
Maintenance staff: that's right.
Reporter: can't return without packaging is required for dealer, HP set?
Maintenance staff: this should be the guarantees stipulated by the law, is the provision of return, but HP should be here if you can find the size of the box, and put this in it, does not affect it can transport, since the machine is too great, we don't have big box.
Sellers and manufacturers push each other on both sides, Li also confused. From May 1, consumer applications for return to today, has in the past 19 days, have already more than 7 days, consumers can apply for refund? Who exactly has set the return of "disorder"?
Reporters from the 1th shop customer service officer to verify that the Lee the first time for the return is on May 1, the application period has not expired.
Reporters checked with sellers refused to return reason, verification, the seller made two points, one is the manufacturers do not charge "bare-metal", so he could not return, and second, he thinks are unreasonable demands of the consumers.
卖家： State has its own law of guarantees, including platforms, each site will have their own requirements, is roughly seven days, no reason to return, this is our compliance with regulations, as on May 1, its machine in normal use, went to the service station wanted to replace what he believed to be a hardware issue, and I agree to return. On May 3 when he goes to work, I had tried to telephone him at the company, said the machine you want to have a problem, we give you the can manufacturers to be replaced by a new. He said there was no problem, now all you have to do is put the original box packing, I'm going to return to the factory, he says without the original box.
Manufacturers has a DOA of process, on equivalent to replacement of process, we to put all information himself ahead of backup out, another part is put at purchase of machine of all accessories loaded good, then delegate Shanghai local of maintenance Center received go, received go yihou will to it open a list, we called DOA claims single, list Shang has a number, we again with this number to manufacturers application to new of machine, this is a normal of process. Boxes are not now, our hands do not have this feature replaced by boxes, manufacturers do not charge and allows the customer to repair, so wherever customers will go against business or reported to 315 is no reason, you do not have boxes who you find reason to go.
After that, reporters from the official HP Customer Service Department, manufacturers do have rules, however, customer service also refers, and dealers consultation, whether that is returned is determined by the merchant, and manufacturer-independent.
Customer service: you should say 27-N174CN this right?
Reporter: Yes, that's right.
Customer service: if that is the case, that it is properly identified, there is such a normal warranty.
Reporter: HP is there such a provision here, said the packaging of this product is lost, there is no way to return this product is it?
Customer service: so, ladies, because here if you'd like a refund or a replacement package, is generally required to complete without some corresponding damage, if the package has been lost, you may need to talk to dealers consultation. Even if you have purchased a half a year, you and the dealer communication successful cases can also help you replace or recoil.
Lee's new computer just for two days, failed, you need to replace the motherboard and failure causes what? Why do manufacturers refuse to return? Reporters then again call the HP official service, customer service replies, will issue feedback to relevant departments, will be in service later reply.
Later on, journalists received email from Ms HP's after-sales service department, HP's reply, received the team after the phone call, first contacted Zhang, after you understand specific situations, manufacturers had apologized to him and told Zhang, manufacturers and distributors agreed, will in the next few days as his replacement.
In this case, Director of the Beijing Bar Association professional Committee of the consumer legal Reed lawyer with Beijing, Chaoyang and Shao Tong for analysis and interpretation.
Economy: the seller told reporters that they refuse to return, mainly because manufacturers do not charge "bare-metal", and he also believes that consumers are unreasonable demands, no one will support it. Consumers return requirement is unreasonable request?
Shao Tong: I don't think to pack is no legal basis to refuse to return, our current national laws and regulations and local policies are not clearly defined, and the operator refused on the grounds of consumer requirements there is no legal basis for return.
Lu Yun: at present, the State administration for industry and commerce is selling goods to the network's "7th return of goods without reasons" for comments, it is well-defined for goods in good condition, it provides for the goods in good condition refers to the commodity itself that comes with the accessories and security logo, product logo, product certification and complete manual, there is no when it comes to packaging. Meanwhile, the Council 25th article of the law says no reason to return the goods in good condition, not the packaging, packaging is just one incidental items in order to guarantee performance, so only packaging does not exist by refusing to fulfil the obligation to return is without legal basis.
Tong Shao: three bags of the appliance of our country that, if the product from the date of sale, performance failure in the 7th, the consumer can choose to return, replacement or repair, refund the seller should be according to the invoice returned a one-time payment, then to producers in accordance with law, recourse against the supplier or purchase and sale contract for processing. It appears from the provisions of this article, the consumer has every reason to demand refund from the seller.
After return, replacement involves the responsibility of seller and the distribution of responsibilities between producers or suppliers, and consumers do not have any relationship. If consumers meet this kind of problem, you can insist that require sellers to assume responsibility for returns.
Economic voices: returns the courier charges should be borne by the seller are borne by the consumer?
Shao Tong: the law in this case, if product quality problems, and courier charges must be borne by the operators. If there are no grounds for return, shall be borne by the consumer.
Lu Yun: in the case of no reason to return, in addition to the provisions of law undertaken by consumer express fee also gives the operator and the consumer's right to contract, for example, operators can make a greater commitment, is no reason to return or bear the freight.
Economic voices: new computer just for two days, out of order, you need to replace the motherboard, consumers think the computer is defective products are defective, two opinion about this?
Shao Tong: in this case, this is not certainly no reason to return, should be the product quality problems. In this case, companies with no packaging to refuse to return is certainly a violation of, and consumer protection law has been expressly stated in, operators are unable to format articles or notice is made a notice, such as excluding or limiting the legal rights of consumers, thereby increasing consumer consumption of unfair and unreasonable provisions. So even if you write to this contract, the terms of this contract shall be null and void or invalid agreement. Therefore, in this case, the operators do not find any reason, because it is legal.
Lu Yun: we should have a qualitative nature of the case, consumers themselves have no reason to return seven days right, but that was subject to a packaging problem, her path was blocked. This case should now be characterized as a product quality issues, so should follow the product quality law, including the provisions of article 24th.
In addition, I would also like to remind consumers, product quality problems, returns the necessary expenses of the operator is required to take, only in the case of no reason to return, the cost should be borne by consumers.
惠普电脑买回两天出故障，却因包装丢失难退换 - 惠普,售后,电脑 - IT资讯
消费者在1号店花8000多元购买的惠普台式电脑，刚用两天突然自动关机，再也无法打开，要求“7天无理由退换货”时，卖家答复“没有外包装不能退换货”，去维修时又意外得知必须更换主板。消费者再次要求退换货，卖家不予理会。《天天315》聚焦：惠普电脑刚买两天出故障，商家为何只修不换？
央广网北京5月20日消息据经济之声《天天315》报道，2014年实施的新《消费者权益保护法》明确规定，消费者网购拥有“七日无理由退换货”的权利。但在实际消费中，“7日内退换货”说易行难，一些经销商处处设置“障碍”，使得不少消费者在行使这一权利时，阻碍重重。比如说：有经销商规定消费者在申请退换货时，必须要提供完好的包装盒，否则就不能退换货；还有的经销商规定，包装不完整、破损也不能退换货；还有个别电商平台对于7天无理由退货的条件是，产品不能开机试用，甚至不能拆开。以上这些商家设置的条件能否作为商家拒绝退换货的理由？先来关注一个案例。
上海消费者李女士，今年4月底在网购平台1号店上的一家名为“惠普电脑专营店”的店铺，花8000多元购买了一台惠普一体机电脑，收到货后，李女士的爱人张先生试用了一下电脑，见一切正常，就将包装箱扔在了门外。
让人没想到的是，电脑第二天就出现故障，5月1号，张先生玩游戏玩的正高兴的时候，电脑突然关机，无法再开机。
李女士：4月30号送到我们家的，4月30日下午我们用了一下，5月1日早上用了一下，5月1号下午机器就无法显示、黑屏，开不了机。
记者：自动关机前，是在浏览网页还是在做什么？
李女士：我老公可能用那个电脑去玩了一下游戏，玩的叫“街头篮球”，占用空间很小的。就在他玩的过程中电脑突然黑屏，然后怎么重启都没有办法开机。
消费者先将电脑送到了惠普维修点，维修人员得知电脑只用了两天，便提醒用户可以申请“7天无理由退换货”。李女士4月27号购买的电脑，30号到货，5月1号就向卖家以及1号店申请了换货。卖家答复可以退换货，但要确保包装完好，没有协商的余地。张先生这才想起包装箱扔在门外，出门一看，箱子已经不知去向。
李女士：我们没有想到机器会出问题，所以就将外包装放在楼道里面，回收废品的阿姨可能以为我们是不要的垃圾，就直接把它卖掉了，这可能也是我自己疏忽了，我没有想到，但是我觉得对于消费者来说，不可能我买了机器，我就想到它一定会坏，我就把那个包装留在家里，这个也不大现实。
不能换只能修了，消费者又再次送修电脑，惠普维修点检修电脑后，给出一个让消费者倍感意外的结果，那就是“主板坏了，需要更换主板”。消费者认为，自己买到的电脑可能是次品，于是，她又再次联系卖家，强烈要求退货，卖家则以厂家不收“裸机”为由再次拒绝。李女士又联系厂家，厂家答复，已经帮助协商，但卖家不同意退货，也就是说不退货是商家行为，与厂家无关。
李女士：我当时就觉得商家卖给我的产品是一个次品，我就不能接受更换主板，所以这个环节就搁置下来了。我说我不接受更换主板，我和经销商再协商一下，看看能不能更换机器，但是跟经销商沟通之后，经销商一口咬定说没有外包装他是坚决不能给我更换机器的。我后来没有办法，我就直接和1号店的官方客服取得联系，他们这边帮我们生成了一个业务调整单，我们跟经销商和惠普取得了联系，经销商这边还是不松口，惠普这边有一个客户关系体验管理部的冯小姐就和我联系了，我们大概联系过2到3次，冯小姐说经销商现在的态度非常强硬，就说没有外包装坚决不给我们换货。冯小姐跟经销商沟通时也提出了一个解决方法，他就说经销商能不能先发一台机器到上海这边，然后我们检测机器有没有问题，直接将我们之前买的有问题的机器再装到包装中，再退还给经销商，但是经销商坚决不同意，所以我们实在没有办法解决这个问题了。
消费者提供了一段录音证据资料，录音中，惠普维修点的工作人员告诉消费者，电脑要修好必须要换主板。
记者：现在除了换主板，就没有别的方式能解决吗？
维修点工作人员：没有，因为这东西坏掉了。
记者：就一定要换主板的，对吧？
维修点工作人员：对。
记者：没有外包装就不能退换货是经销商的要求，还是惠普规定的？
维修点工作人员：这个应该是三包法规定的，就是退换货的规定，但是惠普这边应该是如果你能找到差不多大小的盒子，然后把这个装在里面，不影响它运输都可以，因为机器实在太大了，我们这又没有那么大的盒子。
卖家和厂家双方相互推脱，李女士也一头雾水。从5月1号消费者申请退换货到今天，已经过去19天，早就已经超过7天，消费者还能否申请退换货？到底是谁设置的退换货“障碍”？
记者先从1号店客服人员那里核实到，李女士第一次申请退换货的时间是在5月1号，申请时间没有过期。
记者又向卖家核实拒绝退换货的原因，核实时，卖家提到两点，一是厂家不收“裸机”，所以他没法退换货，二是他认为消费者提出的是无理的要求。
卖家：国家有自己的三包法，包括各个平台，每个网站都有一些自己的要求，大致是七天无理由退换货，这是我们遵守的规定，因为在5月1号时，它的机器不能正常使用了，去了维修站他认为是硬件问题想更换货，我当时也同意退换货。5月3号上班的时候，我在公司就已经给他打过电话，说这台机器你要觉得有问题，我们给你向厂家换一台新的可不可以。他说没有问题，现在你首先要做的就是把原包装箱包装好，我要去退回给厂家，他说原包装箱没有了。
厂家有一个DOA的流程，就相当于换货的流程，我们要把所有资料自己提前备份出来，另一部分就是把当时购买的机器的所有配件装好，然后委托上海当地的维修中心收走，收走以后会给它开一个单子，我们叫DOA索赔单，单子上有一个号码，我们再用这个号码向厂家申请到全新的机器，这是一套正常的流程。现在包装箱都没有，我们手里没有这种特色的包装箱去代替，厂家不收，只能让客户去维修，所以不管客户告到哪，告到工商还是告到315都是没有理由的，你没有包装箱你找谁说理去。
在这之后，记者从惠普官方客服处查询到，厂家方面确实有相关规定，但是，客服还提到，可以和经销商协商处理，也就是说是否退货是由商家决定的，和厂家无关。
客服：您应该说的是27-N174CN的这款对吧？
记者：对，没错。
客服：如果是这样的情况，那这是能够正常查到的，这里面有这样一个正常保修。
记者：惠普这边是不是有这样的规定，说这个产品的外包装丢失了，这个产品就没有办法退还了是吗？
客服：是这样的，女士，因为这边如果要退机或者换机，外包装一般是要齐全的，没有一些相对应的损坏，如果外包装已经丢失，您可能需要跟经销商协商。哪怕您购买了半年，在你和经销商沟通成功的情况下也可以帮您更换或者退机。
李女士的新电脑刚用两天，就出故障，就需要更换主板，故障原因到底是什么？厂家为什么拒绝退换货？记者后来又再次致电惠普官方客服，客服人员答复，会将问题反馈给相关部门，稍后会有专人回复。
后来，记者接收到惠普售后服务部门的常女士发来的邮件，惠普方面答复，在收到栏目组电话后，第一时间联系到张先生，在了解了具体情况后，厂家已经向他表示了歉意，并告知张先生，厂家已经和经销商协商好，将会在近几天为他换机。
关于这一案例，北京市律师协会消费者权益法律专业委员会主任芦云和北京潮阳律师事务所律师邵桐进行了分析与解读。
经济之声：卖家告诉记者，他们拒绝退换货，主要是因为厂家不收“裸机”，而且他还认为，消费者提出的是无理的要求，没人会给予支持。消费者提出的退换货要求是无理要求吗？
邵桐：我认为以没有包装来拒绝退换货是没有法律依据的，我们现行的国家的法律法规以及当地的政策对此都没有明确的规定，因此经营者以这个理由拒绝消费者退换货的要求是没有法律依据的。
芦云：目前国家工商总局正对网络销售商品的“七日无理由退货”征求意见，它对于商品的完好是有明确定义的，它规定商品完好是指商品本身配件及附带的防伪标识、商品吊牌、商品合格证和使用说明书齐全，这里面并没有说到包装。此外，消法第25条规定的无理由退货说的是商品完好，不是包装，包装只是为了保证商品本身性能的一种附带物品，所以仅以包装不存在为由拒绝履行退换货的义务是没有法律依据的。
邵桐：我们国家的家电三包规定，如果产品自售出之日起，七日内发生性能故障，消费者可以选择退货、换货或者修理，退货时销售者应该按发票价格一次性退清货款，然后依法向生产者、供货者追偿或者按购销合同办理。从这条规定看来，消费者完全有理由向销售者要求退换货。
退货、换货以后的责任就涉及到销售者与生产者或者供货者之间的责任分配问题，与消费者没有任何关系。如果有消费者在遇见此类问题，可以坚持主张要求销售者承担退换货的责任。
经济之声：退换货的快递费应该由卖家承担还是由消费者承担？
邵桐：法律规定在这种情况下，如果是产品质量的问题，快递费肯定是由经营者来承担。如果是无理由退换货，应当是由消费者来承担。
芦云：在无理由退换货的情况下，法律除了规定由消费者来承担快递费之外，还赋予了经营者和消费者的约定权，例如经营者可以做出更高的承诺，既无理由退货也承担运费。
经济之声：新电脑刚用两天，就出故障，就需要更换主板，消费者认为电脑是不合格产品，是次品，两位对此怎么看？
邵桐：在本期的案例中，这种情况肯定不是无理由退换货，应当是产品质量本身存在问题。在这种情况下，商家以没有包装来拒绝退换货肯定是违法的，而且消费者保护法中已经明确规定，经营者不能以格式条款或者通知变成告示等方式排除或者限制消费者的合法权利，从而加重消费者对消费的不公平、不合理的规定。所以即便你把这个东西写到合同中，这都是无效的合同条款或者无效的约定。因此在这种情况下，经营者不要找任何理由，因为这是法定的。
芦云：我们应该对这个案件的性质有一个定性，消费者本身有七天无理由退换货的权利，但是当时受制于包装的问题，她的这条道路被堵死了。现在这个案例应该被定性为产品的质量问题，所以应该遵循产品质量法，包括消法第24条的规定。
此外，我还要提醒消费者一点，如果是产品质量的问题，退换货所产生的必要费用需要由经营者来承担，只有在无理由退换货的情况下，费用应该由消费者来承担。