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The author:(作者)aaapublished in(发表于) 2013/12/24 8:42:47 Experts on law changes： more difficult than ministries of local government divisions
Yesterday, the draft amendments to the administrative procedure law to draw the 12 session of the national people's Congress, the sixth session. This was enacted in 1989, the first modification of this law. The revisions, the Beijing News reporter recently interviewed China University law school Dean Xue Gangling.
"At the beginning of this"
Administrative litigation has encountered difficulties in carrying out
A: in the three procedural law, administrative procedure law is enacted in late, why is that?
Xue Gangling: from the late 70, there is some single law to the acts of the executive authorities, can go to the Court, in the first trial is that there are provisions of civil law. To the late 80 's of the last century, found lots of special instance over administrative cases principles, rules of evidence, for example, can mediation. In the passage of the General principles of civil law, and began development of administrative law. But it turns out, it is difficult to develop integrated administrative law and administrative procedure law is relatively viable, is also necessary.
A: why was to develop an administrative procedure law?
Xue Gangling: administrative proceedings are foreign words, in the past, the maintenance of public order on ethics and executive orders, there is no "mingaoguan". After the economic reform, enterprises from the Government from the need to protect the social, business persons of independence. The "cultural revolution" ended and also holds the fear of power and governance also needs to be shifted from governing the country by ethics laws governing requires administrative action.
A: in the formulation of the law of time, dispute how much?
Xue Gangling: when "mingaoguan" is not disputed, which means the system of administrative litigation law of remedies. Controversial issues, including the size of the scope of accepting cases, Department of ad litem pursuant to the regulations should not be used as such.
A: on the legal, social assessment of what?
Xue Gangling: there was some propaganda is still in place, are fully recognized by society, but butted heads during the implementation process, and more difficult to perform.
A: after the law is passed, there is no significant increase in administrative litigation?
Xue Gangling: no large-scale growth in different places on a regular basis. Many such as Shandong, Henan, and before the implementation of the law in these areas are particularly numerous.
The "implementation"
Cases mainly concern land requisition and relocation
Do you think of the law, do you have any regrets?
Xue Gangling: a narrow understanding over administrative proceedings at law only when individual rights are violated, in order to bring an action, if the Administration is against the public interest, it cannot be sued. But in reality there are many violations committed directly against individual interests at the expense of public law and order, you won't get into the proceedings. In other countries, most of administrative litigation has a double function, one is the protection of public order, two for the relief of private party. We simply interpreted as a relief system in administrative litigation, this system was to some extent we misread. Administrative proceedings abroad, not only "mingaoguan", and "gaoguan".
A: why do we narrow it down?
Xue Gangling: research limited, inadequate understanding of other countries and regions. For example, France client personal rights litigation, only accounts for 25% of the administrative proceedings.
A: administrative proceedings as "mingaoguan," what's the problem?
Xue Gangling: limiting the functionality of the administrative proceedings in the area of protection of public order, for example, legal control of the Central Government to the local, is also dependent on the administrative proceedings in a foreign country to achieve, this system is not fully in place. In addition, a simple "mingaoguan" location, very easy to create the Court clashed with the Government. In fact, administrative functions should have the dimensions of the protection of public order, in this connection, the courts and administrative bodies have the same side.
A: in this more than 20 years, any major change in administrative litigation?
Xue Gangling: 90 's of the last century more penalties and fees for the Executive. And human rights-related cases, for example, punishment of rehabilitation through labour is not satisfied, less involved property.
Later, to speed up the urbanization process, current cases, mostly in cases such as land acquisition and relocation, social security and trade and industry finds, mainly, and property-related.
"Focus on the issues"
People in favour of hard fighting system-related
A: administrative cases accepted, in the past, take the indictment to the Court by the parties, the Court will not be accepted, did not issue a ruling, parties have no control over. Draft amendment now to take the "registration system", if I can solve this problem?
Xue Gangling: difficult to say now, depends on the degree of rigid registration system. Registered by the courts do? Superior Court will not be considered to do?
A: administrative proceedings in favour of the common people, is a court issue? Government questions? Or legal issues?
Xue Gangling: the problem is not exclusively in the courts, and institutional "fights". For example, house demolition, land acquisition process particularly long, not two or three runs down. Project management, if not split for a long time, project funding is taken away, this system has no butt. Some local governments proceed, first remove prior programs illegal, not illegal, no way. If prosecuted, will the reasons stated very clearly, support or do not support the Court, it is entangled.
A: there are some cases, although the Court people win, but the problem is still unresolved, still kept appealing.
Xue Gangling: the problem is that the current system has some problems, and I summarized it as "subjective action, objective decisions." Think that their rights had been impaired by the parties, the lawsuit, and the Court is to review the legality of acts of the executive authorities, claims do not respond directly to the person involved, resulting in knots about unfinished business.
A: can you give me an example?
Xue Gangling: there used to be a City Housing Authority sold by Commission sale of public houses, a buyer bought the room, deed did not get for several years, was later found to have officials got his name on the House. Court finally withdrew the official registration. After the withdrawal, you should give the buyer registration, but relevant departments is not registered to him.
Why don't you register? In accordance with procedural requirements, discussion in the House Committee approval is required to register, but the Committee had never existed, and therefore will never be able to recover the program, he could not register, housing management departments registration Court cannot directly command, he continued to sue. This is the typical response to the party's rights, the system itself was flawed. Case finished, things still remain unsolved.
Newspaper: the idea that, told the judge the quality of first instance administrative cases are also related, what do you think?
Xue Gangling: administrative trial judges nationwide, about 20,000 people, some administrative trial judges have no government experience. I am not advocating that students graduate when the judge directly, especially in administrative proceedings, has many years of experience, after many trials of officials, tricky case.
"Expert advice"
To reflect problems building the network platform
A: some places to explore the Executive heads appear in anger, if it helps to break in administrative litigation?
Xue Gangling: like sitting on the dock, in fact, has its advantages and disadvantages. Lee, is leadership, good social effect, under supervision. Disadvantage is that if the proceedings, too occupied, and head up might be "stand", an action required professional knowledge and skills, number one doesn't have to be a professional, actually let him sit in the "trial", which increased his resistance and lack of confidence.
A: in your opinion, ministries and local governments, which are more difficult to sue?
Xue Gangling: ministries are relatively better, since the Court "have no fear" ministries, it's human, financial and material are not controlled by the Ministry. In addition, after decades of development, ministries and capable administrative litigation and accept losing.
A: assessment will play a catalytic role in the administrative cases?
Xue Gangling: examination prosecution rates in some places, losing rate how much direct impact on official promotion, allowing officials take administrative action as a negative thing. In fact, some administrative dispute because both sides understand the law is different, this is quite normal, scientific assessment not impede the running of administrative litigation.
A: to crack the case difficult, apart from legislation, do you have any suggestions?
Xue Gangling: I think will make a network platform, similar to the administrative Licensing application platform. People to court, after due process is not accepted, can reflect real application of this platform, as well as on issues. Through this platform, has the right to supervise the agencies are able to grasp the situation, the implementation of effective supervision.
If a place is, there are many cases will not be accepted, you can invite experts to judge, which forced the Court, will not be considered to bear the negative consequences. This will also be conducive to the local executive authority.
A: now have less than on the administrative law system which links?
Xue Gangling: administrative organization law gap is large, now new leaders emphasized national capacity for governance and a modern governance structure, it should be said that there is an urgent need to strengthen the Organization's legislative Executive, which is the Foundation of national modernization of governing structure.
A: some places try to establish administrative procedures and regulations, there is no need to enact a law on administrative procedures at national level?
Xue Gangling: of course necessary, but whether the conditions are ripe, need to be studied. The implementation of the law on administrative procedures, need to fine works, the cost is relatively high, but it is the direction of our efforts.
Memorabilia
On April 4, 1989
VII session of the second meeting of the national people's Congress passed the administrative procedure law, come into force on October 1, 1990.
July 11, 1991
Trial judicial interpretation of the Supreme People's Court, respectively, on the scope of accepting cases in administrative litigation, jurisdiction, provides for 12 issues of participants in proceedings.
On October 1, 2002
Supreme People's Court on several issues of administrative lawsuit evidence introduced provisions is divided into terms of distribution of burden of proof and the burden of proof, evidence requirements, access to and preservation of evidence, identify and verify the quality of the evidence, the admission of evidence examination and determination, by-law, such as the six-part.
After the introduction of the administrative procedure law
Law on State compensation, the administrative punishment law, law on administrative reconsideration, administrative license law and other laws governing executive powers exercised were introduced.
This version of the article/Beijing News reporter Song Shi trail
(Original title: "the people in favour of hard fighting system-related")
昨日，行政诉讼法修正案草案提请十二届全国人大常委会第六次会议审议。这是自1989年通过后，这部法的首次修改。针对此次修改，新京报记者日前采访了中国政法大学法学院院长薛刚凌。
【立法之初】
行政诉讼案一直遭遇执行难
新京报：在三大诉讼法中，行政诉讼法是最晚制定的，这是什么原因？
薛刚凌：从上世纪70年代末，就有一些单行法律规定对行政机关的行为不服，可以到法院起诉，在试行的民事诉讼法中也有一些规定。到上世纪80年代中后期，发现审行政案子有很多特殊原则，比如说举证规则、可不可以调解等。在民法通则通过后，开始着手制定行政法。但是后来发现，制定综合行政法比较难，而制定行政诉讼法相对可行，也很必要。
新京报：为什么当时要制定一部行政诉讼法？
薛刚凌：行政诉讼是个外来词汇，在过去，公共秩序的维护靠伦理和行政命令，没有“民告官”。经济改革以后，企业要从政府脱离，需要保障社会人、企业人的独立。“文革”结束不久，社会还保存着对权力的恐惧，国家治理也需要从伦理治国转向法律治国，需要行政诉讼。
新京报：在制定这部法律的时候，争议大不大？
薛刚凌：当时对“民告官”没有争议，也就是将行政诉讼制度定位为救济法。争议较大的问题包括受案范围的大小、部门的规章可以不可以作为审案依据等。
新京报：对这个法律，当时的社会评价怎么样？
薛刚凌：当时有一段宣传还是很到位的，得到了社会的充分认可，但是在执行过程中就一直磕磕碰碰，执行起来比较难。
新京报：法律通过后，行政诉讼有没有明显的增多？
薛刚凌：没有大规模的增长，不同地方情况不同。比如山东、河南就很多，这些地方在法律实施之前就特别多。
【实施情况】
案件主要涉及征地拆迁
新京报：你认为这部法律制定的时候有什么遗憾吗？
薛刚凌：当时对行政诉讼理解得很窄，法律规定只有当个人权益受到侵害的时候才能提起诉讼，如果行政机关侵害的是公共利益，就不能提起诉讼。而现实中有许多违法行为不直接侵害个人利益，但损害公法秩序，就进不了诉讼程序。在国外，行政诉讼大多有双重功能，一是保障公法秩序，二是救济行政相对人。我们把行政诉讼简单地理解为救济制度，这个制度在一定程度上是被我们误读了。国外的行政诉讼中，不仅有“民告官”，也有“官告官”。
新京报：为什么我们会把范围缩小了？
薛刚凌：当时的研究有限，对其他国家和地区的了解不够。比如，法国的当事人个人权益诉讼，只占到了行政诉讼的25%。
新京报：把行政诉讼定位为“民告官”有什么问题？
薛刚凌：限制了行政诉讼在保障公法秩序方面的功能，比如中央对地方的法律控制，在国外也是依赖行政诉讼来实现的，我国这方面的制度还没有完全建立起来。另外，简单的“民告官”定位，很容易造成法院和政府对抗。实际上，行政诉讼的功能也应有维护公法秩序的维度，在这一点上，法院和行政机关有共同的一面。
新京报：在这20多年里，行政诉讼发生了什么重大的变化？
薛刚凌：上世纪90年代更多的是针对行政机关乱处罚、乱收费。还有和人身权利有关的案件，比如对劳动教养处罚不服，涉及财产要少一些。
后来城市化进程加快，现在的案件，主要涉及征地、拆迁、社会保障和工商认定等案件，主要和财产权有关。
【焦点问题】
百姓胜诉难与制度打架有关
新京报：行政案件受理难，以往当事人拿着起诉书去法院起诉，法院不受理，也不出具裁定，当事人就没有办法。现在修正案草案要采取“登记制”，是否能解决这个问题？
薛刚凌：现在不大好说，要看登记制度的刚性程度。法院不给登记怎么办？上级法院也不受理怎么办？
新京报：老百姓行政诉讼胜诉难，是法院的问题？政府的问题？还是法律的问题？
薛刚凌：问题不完全在法院，也与制度“打架”有关。比方说房子拆迁，征地流程特别长，没有两三年跑不下来。而项目管理方面，如果长时间不拆，项目资金就要拿走，这两套制度不对接。一些地方政府就先斩后奏，先拆先征，程序违法，不违法没法办。如果起诉，政府会把苦衷说得很清楚，法院支持还是不支持，就很纠结。
新京报：有一些案子，虽然法院判决老百姓胜诉了，可是问题还是得不到解决，依然不停上访。
薛刚凌：问题在于现行制度设计有一些问题，我把它归纳为“主观诉讼、客观裁判”。当事人认为自己的权利受到了损害，进入诉讼程序，而法院却对行政机关的行为进行合法性审查，对当事人的权利要求不直接回应，结果案结事未了。
新京报：能举个例子吗？
薛刚凌：曾有个城市的房管局通过售房委员会出售公房，一个购买者买了房，好几年房产证都没有拿到，后来查到有官员把这个房子弄到自己名下了。法院最后把官员的登记行为撤销了。本来撤销之后，就应该给这个买主登记，但是有关部门就是不给他登记。
为什么不给登记？按照当时程序规定，需要售房委员会讨论批准才能登记，但是现在委员会早就不存在了，所以永远不可能再恢复这个程序，他登记不了，法院又不能直接命令房管部门登记，结果他就不断来告。这就是典型的不回应当事人权利，这个制度本身有缺陷。案子审完了，事情还是不能解决。
新京报：有观点认为，行政案件难审跟法官素质也有关系，你怎么看？
薛刚凌：目前全国的行政审判法官大约有两万多人，有些行政审判法官没有政府工作经验。我不主张学生毕业直接当法官，尤其是行政诉讼，面对的都是有多年经验、经过许多历练的官员，办案比较棘手。
【专家建议】
可为反映问题建设网络平台
新京报：有些地方探索行政一把手出庭应诉，这是否有助于破解行政诉讼难？
薛刚凌：一把手坐在被告席，其实有利也有弊。利，是领导重视，社会宣传效果好，对下面也是监督。弊在于，如果诉讼多了，太占用时间，而且一把手上去可能是“摆设”，诉讼需要有很专业的知识和技巧，一把手不一定很专业，实际上让他坐在那“受审”，无形中增加了他的抵触和畏难情绪。
新京报：在你看来，部委和地方政府哪个更难告？
薛刚凌：部委相对好一些，因为法院“不怕”部委，它的人、财、物不受部委控制。另外，经过几十年的发展，部委更能接受行政诉讼，接受败诉。
新京报：在行政案件上考核会不会起到推动作用？
薛刚凌：有些地方考核起诉率多少，败诉率多少，直接影响官员的升迁，让官员把行政诉讼当做负面的东西。实际上，一些行政争议是因为双方对法律的理解有所不同，这是很正常的，不科学的考核阻碍行政诉讼的运行。
新京报：对破解立案难，除了立法，你还有什么建议？
薛刚凌：我在想可否做一个网络平台，类似于行政许可的申请平台。老百姓到法院起诉，经过法定程序就是不受理的，可以上这个平台实名申请以及反映问题。通过这个平台，有监督权的机关能够掌握情况，实施有效监督。
如果某一个地方，有很多案件不受理，可以请专家来评判，这就逼着法院受理，不受理就要承担不利后果。这也有利于对地方行政机关的监督。
新京报：现在行政法体系上哪些环节上还有不足？
薛刚凌：行政组织法缺口很大，现在新一届领导人强调国家治理能力和治理结构的现代化，应该说，迫切需要加强行政组织的立法，这是实现国家治理结构现代化的基础。
新京报：有些地方尝试制定行政程序法规，国家层面有没有必要制定一部行政程序法？
薛刚凌：当然必要，但是否条件成熟，需要研究。行政程序法的实施，需要精细化的运作，成本比较高，但这是我们努力的方向。
■ 大事记
●1989年4月4日
第七届全国人民代表大会第二次会议通过了行政诉讼法，1990年10月1日起施行。
●1991年7月11日
试行的最高人民法院司法解释，分别就行政诉讼受案范围、管辖、诉讼参加人等12方面问题作出规定。
●2002年10月1日
最高人民法院出台的关于行政诉讼证据若干问题的规定，分为举证责任分配和举证期限、提供证据的要求、调取和保全证据、证据的对质辨认和核实、证据的审核认定、附则等六部分。
●行政诉讼法出台后
国家赔偿法、行政处罚法、行政复议法、行政许可法等规范行政权力行使的法律相继出台。
本版采写/新京报记者 宋识径
（原标题：“百姓胜诉难与制度打架有关”）
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