Huawei, founded by ren zhengfei told Xinhua in an interview: firm implementation of supply side reforms-ren zhengfei, Huawei, the Xinhua News Agency-IT information

IT information news on May 11, the Xinhua News Agency currently advertised on the 7000-Word interview with Huawei, founded by ren zhengfei, and interviews related to Huawei's success, the business environment in China, as well as scientific and technological innovation and in-depth topics such as reform and opening up, highlighting the national firm signal to the supply side reform.

Ren zhengfei, Huawei's development has benefited from the country's political environment and changes in the economic environment in Shenzhen, benefiting 28 only on the field of communication that "walls" charge, thanks to the firm continue to change, comprehensive study of the Western companies. According to the problems raised questions about why Huawei is not listed, ren said, because we do not see interest, are fighting for ideals and goals. Hold the "battle" is difficult, there are a lot of sacrifices. If listed, the "shareholders" looking at the stock market can make billions of Yuan and tens of billions of Yuan, forcing us to horizontal development, we're tapping into "no man's land".

The relationship between Government and enterprise, ren said, the Shenzhen Municipal Government have done quite well, is that the Government does not interfere with the company's operations. The rule of law and market, in fact, as long as the Government control of the two dams, orderly operation of enterprises within the dam, just leave. First and foremost is to establish rules in the area of the rule of law and market to provide the most effective protection.

For how to further open, ren said, first, tax breaks, cut taxes first. Second, change the distribution mechanism of labor and capital. Then innovation has been the release of productivity, create wealth, so that China's prosperity. Bubble economy in China is a destroyed, we must get down to research. Theory innovation to produce industrial, technological innovation can move on.

In addition, ren said: the depth and breadth of the future information society unthinkable, will be the biggest change in human society over the next twenty or thirty times. With breakthroughs in biotechnology, artificial intelligence implementation, human society in the future will rise a lot of big industries.

Here are details:

Successful password: "stick to doing only one thing"

Reporter: the global economic downturn, Huawei was flying against the wind. Huawei gene and what is the secret of success?

Ren: first, Huawei has developed thanks to the national political environment and changes in the economic environment in Shenzhen, if there is no reform, there will be no development. 1987 18th, clarify property rights of private enterprise in Shenzhen. Without this file, we will not create a Huawei. Later, Huawei has developed to a certain scale, we feel that tax burden is too heavy, many colleagues say that divided the money. Shenzhen the "22" by investing in non-taxable, income after tax was introduced for several years. We will scale this time.

Second, Huawei determined 28 only on the field of communication this "wall" charge. After we grew up, stick to do only one thing, in terms of a bigger and stronger. When Huawei was only dozens of people on a "wall" attacks, when hundreds of people, tens of thousands of people are on the "walls" attack, a hundred thousand of people are now on the "walls" charge. Intensive bombardment, saturation attacks. Every year more than 100 billion yuan of "ammunition" shelled this "wall", the development of nearly 60 billion yuan, 50 billion yuan and 60 billion yuan of market services, culminating in the large data transfer, we lead the world. After leading the world, we advocate the establishment of a world order, establish a framework for open and win-win, to thousands of companies building the information society in the world.

Third, Huawei committed to continuous change, comprehensive study of the Western companies. We took 28 years to study in the West, has yet to get through the whole process, although we and other than the management of the company has been very good, but compared with international companies such as Ericsson, 20,000 more managers, spend $ 4 billion a year management fee. So we are constantly optimizing the Organization and processes, improve internal efficiencies.

Reporter: Huawei, spends hundreds of millions of dollars, IBM team to help manage the business. Why pay so much money to improve management?

Ren: do you know what? Toyota directors retire with a senior team in our company for 10 years, Germany's engineering team in our company for more than 10 years, will make our production process to a scientific and normalized. Starting from the production of tens of thousands of dollars, and now tens of billions of dollars and hundreds of billions of dollars in production, Huawei is making it better. We spend many millions of dollars in consultancy fees.

When we go out of the country, the world, and nothing, I do not know what is delivered, all engineering consultants around the world to help us, please. The first step is to earnestly study, gradually moving towards the standardization of the management of the company. Now we are ourselves one step further, you want to do it more simple and better.

Reporter: Huawei have weaknesses?

Ren: Yes. Huawei should be almost 3 years ago has collapsed. Why? Because we have the money, afraid of suffering. We send overseas have sent out. Everyone wants to buy an apartment, to accompany a child, wanted to stay in place. We figure: why not improve the first-line treatment of those who fight it? We determined the African "General" standard and the different standards in Shanghai, Beijing, and young people in Africa will soon become "General". You're in Africa, towards Africa, "General" criteria met is "General" may have "General" money. Now that our African staff don't want to come back.

Reporter: can lead the company to a future of innovation?

Ren: for instance, 4K HD TV, Beijing and Shenzhen are also now can't do it, but even in remote rural areas of the province are in Sichuan 4K HD TV that we and Telecom cooperation. 4K TV will support very large bandwidth, pipeline. Mobile 2 k soon, will also stretch a pipeline. So piping must be someone to do! 4 k is still yet to come, VR (virtual reality) is coming, but also interactive, flow could be far greater than 4 k. This is stopped by the trend of social development, is a huge strategic opportunity. Hong Kong and Macao will soon come true. Sichuan proved that ordinary rural areas can enjoy very high bandwidth.

Stick to "battle": "Center is the ideal"

Reporter: Huawei's growth process, amid outbreak of Chinese real estate, are you wavered?

Ren: not at all. Never ever played the stock market, didn't do these things in real estate.

Interviewer: not tempted?

Ren: not at all. At that time, company exchanges downstairs, buy shares in the three outer three-layer surrounded. Our upstairs is calm as water, are working. We are focused on doing one thing, attacking "wall."

Reporter: how a culture?

Ren: silly, to sum up the word is silly, not as the money Center. Center is the ideal, the ideal is to adhere to the "battle". Money is not the most important.

Reporter: why Huawei is not listed?

Ren: because we do not see interest, are fighting for ideals and goals. Hold the "battle" is difficult, there are a lot of sacrifices. If listed, the "shareholders" looking at the stock market can make billions of Yuan and tens of billions of Yuan, forcing us to horizontal development, we're tapping into "no man's land".

Innovators dilemma: "If ' Black Swan ', is also flying in our coffee cup"

Reporter: history of many large corporations almost overnight collapse, just like written in the innovator's dilemma. You have this sense?

Ren: at least in large data transfers this situation does not occur in this area. Even with the "Black Swan", is also flying in our coffee cup. Can we get a "Black Swan" into "White Swan". Atmosphere inside our minds are open and free, "Black Swan" will only appear on our coffee cups, rather than on the outside. We have brought together the world's major technology trend here.

Reporter: Huawei's optimism in the future, but you also stressed that "next fall are Huawei", why?

Ren: two questions. First, we will also relax, we are growing very fast, but then will become lazy? We want to see their own inadequacies. Second, our countries must strengthen the protection of intellectual property. Property the property law to protect, or at least want to equate the right of intellectual property. Countries to protect intellectual property rights to inventions.

Reporter: some time ago you signed a patent cross-license agreement with Ericsson?

Ren: Yes, we cheered company executives after the signing, because we bought a ticket in the world. We have an employee wrote a post, said, "we shook hands with the world, we hold to the world".

If we are protecting original inventions, there are a lot of people to do original, this original development into industry.

Wide channel: "the main channel is only going to get wide, wide you unimaginable"

Reporter: inter-enterprise competition is brutal, but you mentioned a short while ago and foreign competitors can freely dialogue, how do it do that? Not all competitive scorched earth policy?

Ren: said it was someone else's scorched-earth policy, we have never done this. Huawei is a small company is very open, and others are friendly in General. Why do we have such a good space in the international market? Because of our intellectual property, "nuclear umbrella" established, and over the years we have made so many trips to others, of course, we also received a lot of royalties, and so many companies signed a patent cross-licensing agreement, which itself is friendly, treat people with respect. We are now growing faster than others, into areas deeper than the others, we have to take into account the development of the world.

Reporter: Huawei is fight in the main channel, it continues now is getting wider, also are narrower in it? Competitors is that more and more, getting stronger, or what a story?

Ren: main channel will only become more wide, wide to you is unimaginable. We still can't imagine what the information society of the future looks like. We just fix the channel width, waterway walk on a variety of ships, yachts, cargo ships, small boats, others, operators only collect tolls. So we have to work with thousands of companies, can achieve this goal.

Keep "two dykes": "first and foremost is to establish rules"

Reporter: in Shenzhen, the relationship between Government and enterprises? What advice do you have on the Government?

Ren: did a good bit of Shenzhen Municipal Government, is that the Government does not interfere with the company's operations. The rule of law and market, in fact, as long as the Government control of the two dams, orderly operation of enterprises within the dam, just leave. First and foremost is to establish rules in the area of the rule of law and market to provide the most effective protection.

Reporter: Shenzhen economy walking in the forefront of innovation?

Ren zhengfei, Shenzhen is the first to achieve the rule of law, market-oriented, this walking in the national front. Intellectual property lawsuit, Justice of the Court.

Reporter: there used to be a stage, the Pearl River Delta is known as the "workshop of the world". What do you think of road to Pearl River Delta factories in the world all these years? The road to innovation development, innovation drives the value?

Ren: you are more than 20 years ago to Huawei, Huawei is fast closing factories. We use two Multimeters and Oscilloscopes Peng Peng in a rotten start. We used to be behind the factory, behind the poor than the Pearl River Delta factories.

Evolution is a gradual process. Now many labour-intensive industries in the PRD to go to Southeast Asia. You cannot only look at the Pearl River Delta, a few high-tech companies succeed. High-tech companies are also "low tech" on the basis of growing up. Conditions as long as you give him, he will improve and surpass themselves, will develop slowly. High-tech companies also need to "low tech" components.

Reporter: in other words, if there is no such basis of manufacturing support, the so-called high-tech is without foundation?

Ren: Yes. Our technology is determined by how many "low tech" consist of? Each part is a high-tech yet? It can't be. Our product is made up of many parts? Used to buy these parts, we all pay in RMB, to Dongguan to take delivery, and now was in dollars, to Southeast Asia to take delivery.

Prosperity: "hoe must plant the corn, corn is the business entity"

Reporter: do you think seize the international opportunity to further open, the focus should be on what?

Ren: first, cut taxes, cut taxes first. Tax cuts can bring sustainable relief, thus adding more investment and innovation, enterprises have the money for research and development, so that you may get to recuperate and breathing space, industry will be able to expand, the tax base is big. Second, change the distribution mechanism of labor and capital. Huawei annual allocation of labour and capital is 3:1, value of business each year, set a distribution according to the contribution of capital and labor, the enthusiasm of the workers on the up and up.

Press Conference: innovation with the reform and opening up what is the relationship?

Ren: innovation is the release of productivity, create wealth, so that China's prosperity. The virtual economy is a tool, tool is a hoe, can't say I used about fifty or sixty hoe, hoe must plant the corn, corn is the corporate entity. We have to develop corporate entities to address the material and cultural needs of the people as the Center, to maintain social stability.

Reporter: some people say that change has weakened over the years, how would you rate it?

Ren: I think if everyone was holding an overnight idea, impossible, its power is weakened. But reality is that day or that day, or that one, windlass fence dog does not change, how can you become a "second generation"? If we, with an effort to create, slow, healthy growth of the mind, everyone's satisfaction increased.

Strategic patience: "there is no theoretical innovation is not sustainable and is also unlikely to succeed"

Reporter: the United States is the world's high-tech Silicon Valley heights, what is the hope of Chinese innovation?

Ren: high-tech's biggest problem is that we should calm down, no theoretical basis of innovation is can't do big business. "To sit the bench for ten years cold" theory based on the bench may have to sit longer. Our research, people more important than equipment. With very simple equipment can make complex scientific research, and simple even if they use advanced equipment can not do.

Reporter: China is likely to grow as many "Huawei"?

Ren: OK. First, small enterprises, dedicated to customer service. Small enterprises, especially the small, entrepreneurial companies, we will conscientiously and steadfastly, sincere customer service. Small businesses not to say too much about the methodology, grinding is to genuinely good tofu, tofu done well, must be sold. As long as genuine customers, quality improvement, will have a chance. Don't get too complex management. Second, in a field, keep a "screw". Third, small firms cannot succeed their egos. I have always believed that the enterprise should do step by step.

Bubble economy in China is a destroyed, we must get down to research. A theory into a big industry, through decades of effort, we need strategic patience. To respect the scientists, some people get down to do research. If the academic bubble, China's future high-tech it is difficult to have a future. Don't bubble, don't worry, no great leap forward. No theoretical innovation is unsustainable, is also unlikely to succeed.

Our company resources to set up more than 20 multiple competence centers of the world, not the theoretical breakthrough of the competence centre for the scientists, there will be no leader in the world. China must build a theoretical breakthrough and innovation is the way out. Small change, small leather, cannot be a big industry.

Reporter: do you mean theoretical innovation in basic research?

Ren: advanced than a basic research in theoretical innovation, because he wrote the equation and perhaps even God don't even understand, just as Einstein's gravitational field equations written 100 years ago, who at that time also don't understand, after 100 years of study to a number of scientists have finally proved that the theory is right. After lots of cutting-edge theoretical breakthrough, when humanity could not understand.

Reporter: Huawei has hired many foreign scientists?

Ren: we are scientists at the Institute of overseas are mostly foreigners, Chinese Director, the Director is the service. Our "2012 Lab" now has more than 700 scientists, this year to more than 1400 people.

Press Conference: high-tech development should be supported by theory?

Ren: theoretical innovation to produce industrial, technological innovation can move on. Japan a small business as a screw, decades only screws, screw will never loose, most of the high speed railway in the world is the company's screws. A screw has a lot of places to study. I have been to Germany village factories, making a product for decades, none of the map is not saying how much sales, but the share of the world, village enterprise!

Reporter: you grew up in Huawei feel, how can our country in the next economic cycle "seizing" a place for high-tech?

Ren: first of all, do not have "preemption" concept, Rob, on the bubble. Is the solid base, into the world, and world development, shared success.

The next 30 years: "will rise very much big industry"

Reporter: some say that the Shenzhen on the innovation-driven development path, one of the power sources is Huawei?

Ren: the depth and breadth of the future information society unthinkable, will be the biggest change in human society over the next twenty or thirty times. With breakthroughs in biotechnology, artificial intelligence implementation, human society in the future will rise a lot of big industries.

We faced a great deal of intellectual property threats. The last twenty or thirty years, twenty or thirty years from poor communication to broadband communications, how many big companies in the world, United States Cisco, Google, Facebook, Apple, China does not have much, because of inadequate protection of intellectual property rights. Major industries of the future there will be more, such as VR virtual reality, China's advantage in these industries is, but better, there must be a very stringent intellectual property protection measures.

Reporter: How do you think China's construction and development of a business environment?

Ren: I think that it is the new normal is very correct. We are no longer pursuing high speed, slowly for proper development, quality is essential.

Experts say investment in two ways: one is the extension, such as building a steel plant, and to build a steel plant, and to build a steel plant, big scale; the second Prometheus investments, Prometheus stole the fire, a fire makes a human civilization, this is the breakthrough. Innovation of our country along the way of growing our economy, is right. Epitaxial growth and excess investment products more, cheaper, poor investment results.

Reporter: in your opinion, we are faced with unprecedented opportunities while facing great risk is what?

Ren: I think China's economy wasn't such a big problem. Main is not to their own bubble. Situation in China is better than anyone else, as long as not to let the most fakes, there are big problems.

To avoid a crisis: "high costs will eventually destroy your competition"

Reporter: where do you think Shenzhen future crises?

Ren: simple, 140 years ago, the center of the world in Pittsburgh, steel. 70 years ago, the center of the world in Detroit, car. Now, where is the center of the world? I don't know, decentralization, would go to low-cost areas. Higher costs will eventually destroy your competition. And now the high-speed railway network, highways, energy distribution of time has formed, but it will not gather in high cost areas.

Reporter: Huawei is a home grown enterprises in Shenzhen, you to Shenzhen City development such as internationalization, reform and opening up, such as the expectation?

Ren: Shenzhen real estate is too much, not chunks of industrial land. You all know great industrial development, each company requires a certain amount of space.

Ultimately to the industrial modernization in our country. The four modernizations, the most important industrial modernization. Modernization of the industry was the most important, to land in Exchange for industrial growth. Less and less land now, more expensive, and industrial development in terms of possible space is getting smaller and smaller. Since the development of industry, growing industry, it is necessary to count a large industry needs what are the elements of this factor is how the average of the world's, count out hosts how much output per square kilometre, the output how many people, these people need to have housing and living facilities. Living facilities are too expensive, companies can't afford to host production cost is too high, industrial development is not up.

Chinese companies going abroad: "to understand law, not money can invest"

Reporter: on a number of Chinese companies looking to go, any suggestions?

Ren: first of all, to build the rule of law in China, enterprises in the domestic law. You are in domestic law, certainly is truthless. So I do not support Chinese enterprises to blindly go. System on social impact will not be immediate, effects decades slowly release 100 years. Second, we must learn to manage a market economy in China, in China's cut-throat playing, also survived, was able to go out and play with others strong. China to strengthen the construction of legal, accounting and other systems so that they became strong out of the country. Or enterprises to go out very much risk, might end up Peregrine investments. So I believe that Chinese enterprises to go out, first of all to the rule of law, and to figure out the laws, not to invest the money.

华为任正非接受新华社专访：必须坚定实施供给侧改革 - 任正非,华为,新华社 - IT资讯

IT资讯讯 5月11日消息，新华社目前播发了对华为任正非的7000字专访，专访内容涉及华为成功的秘诀、国内目前的创业环境，以及科技创新和深入改革开放等话题，凸显国家对供给侧改革的坚定信号。

任正非表示，华为的发展得益于国家政治大环境和深圳经济小环境的改变，得益于28年只对准通信领域这个“城墙口”冲锋，得益于坚定不移持续变革，全面学习西方公司管理。针对外界质疑华为为何不上市的问题，任正非表示，因为我们把利益看得不重，就是为理想和目标而奋斗。守住“上甘岭”是很难的，还有好多牺牲。如果上市，“股东们”看着股市那儿可赚几十亿元、几百亿元，逼我们横向发展，我们就攻不进“无人区”了。

面对政府和企业的关系问题，任正非说，深圳市政府做得比较好的一点，是政府基本不干预企业的具体运作。法治化、市场化，其实政府只要管住这两条堤坝，企业在堤坝内有序运营，就不要管。政府最主要还是建立规则，在法治化和市场化方面给企业提供最有力的保障。

对于如何进一步扩大改革开放，任正非表示，第一，减税，先把税减下来。第二，改变劳动和资本的分配机制。然后，创新就是释放生产力，创造具体的财富，从而使中国走向繁荣。泡沫经济对中国是一个摧毁，我们一定要踏踏实实搞科研。有理论创新才能产生大产业，当然有技术创新也能前进。

此外，任正非还说：未来信息社会的深度和广度不可想象，未来二三十年将是人类社会发生最大变化的时代。伴随生物技术的突破、人工智能的实现等等，未来人类社会一定会崛起非常多的大产业。

以下是详细内容：

成功密码：“坚持只做一件事”

记者：当下全球经济不景气，华为却逆风飞扬。华为成功的基因和秘诀是什么？

任正非：第一，华为的发展得益于国家政治大环境和深圳经济小环境的改变，如果没有改革开放，就没有我们的发展。深圳1987年18号文件明晰了民营企业产权。没有这个文件，我们不会创建华为。后来，华为发展到一定规模时，我们感到税负太重，很多同事说把钱分了算了。这时深圳出了“22条”，提出投资先不征税，等到收益后再征税，实行了好几年。这个时候我们就规模化了。

第二，华为坚定不移28年只对准通信领域这个“城墙口”冲锋。我们成长起来后，坚持只做一件事，在一个方面做大。华为只有几十人的时候就对着一个“城墙口”进攻，几百人、几万人的时候也是对着这个“城墙口”进攻，现在十几万人还是对着这个“城墙口”冲锋。密集炮火，饱和攻击。每年1000多亿元的“弹药量”炮轰这个“城墙口”，研发近600亿元，市场服务500亿元到600亿元，最终在大数据传送上我们领先了世界。引领世界后，我们倡导建立世界大秩序，建立一个开放、共赢的架构，有利于世界成千上万家企业一同建设信息社会。

第三，华为坚定不移持续变革，全面学习西方公司管理。我们花了28年时间向西方学习，至今还没有打通全流程，虽然我们和其他一些公司比管理已经很好了，但和爱立信这样的国际公司相比，多了2万管理人员，每年多花40亿美元管理费用。所以我们还在不断优化组织和流程，提升内部效率。

记者：华为每年花上亿美元请IBM顾问团队来帮助管理企业。为什么要花这么大的价钱改进管理？

任正非：你们知道吗？丰田的董事退休后带着一个高级团队在我们公司工作了10年，德国的工程研究院团队在我们公司也待了十几年，才使我们的生产过程走向了科学化、正常化。从生产几万块钱的产品开始，到现在几百亿美元、上千亿美元的生产，华为才越搞越好。我们每年花好多亿美元的顾问费。

我们走出国门、走向全世界的时候，什么都不会，不知道什么叫交付，全是请世界各国的工程顾问公司帮助我们。第一步就是认真学习，使公司逐步走向管理规范化。现在我们正在自己往前一步，就想再做得更简单一些、更好一些。

记者：华为有没有弱点？

任正非：有。华为公司3年前应该快垮了。为什么？因为大家有钱了，怕苦了。我们往海外派人都派不出去。大家都想在北京买房、陪小孩，都想在好地方呆。我们就琢磨：为什么不提升一线作战的人的待遇呢？我们确定非洲“将军”的标准与上海、北京的标准不一样，年轻人在非洲很快就当上“将军”。你在非洲干，就朝着这个非洲“将军”的标准，达到了就是“将军”，就可以拿“将军”的钱。现在我们的非洲员工根本不想回来。

记者：创新能把华为领向一个怎样的未来？

任正非：比如4K高清电视，现在北京、深圳都还做不到，但四川全省连边远农村用的都是4K高清电视，就是我们和四川电信合作做的。4K电视会把带宽、信息管道撑得很大。手机很快也是2K了，也会把信息管道撑大。这么大的管道一定要有人来做！4K现在还没有到来，VR（虚拟现实）就要到来了，还能互动，流量会远远大于4K。这是阻挡不住的社会发展趋势，也是巨大的战略机会。香港、澳门马上也会实现。四川的实践证明，普通的农村也可以享受很高的带宽。

坚守“上甘岭”：“中心是有理想”

记者：华为成长过程中，正逢中国房地产爆发，您是否动摇过？

任正非：没有。没炒过股票，没做过房地产这些东西。

记者：没有诱惑么？

任正非：没有。那时，公司楼下有个交易所，买股票的人里三层外三层包围着。我们楼上则平静得像水一样，都在干活。我们就是专注做一件事情，攻击“城墙口”。

记者：是怎样形成这样一种文化的？

任正非：傻，要总结的话就是傻，不把钱看成中心。中心是理想，理想就是要坚守“上甘岭”。钱不是最重要的。

记者：华为为什么不上市？

任正非：因为我们把利益看得不重，就是为理想和目标而奋斗。守住“上甘岭”是很难的，还有好多牺牲。如果上市，“股东们”看着股市那儿可赚几十亿元、几百亿元，逼我们横向发展，我们就攻不进“无人区”了。

创新者窘境：“即使有‘黑天鹅’，也是在我们的咖啡杯中飞”

记者：历史上很多大公司几乎在一夜之间倒闭了，就像在《创新者的窘境》里写的一样。您有没有这种忧患意识？

任正非：至少在大数据传送这个领域不会出现这种状况。即使有“黑天鹅”，也是在我们的咖啡杯中飞。我们可以及时把“黑天鹅”转化成“白天鹅”。我们内部的思想氛围是很开放自由的，“黑天鹅”只会出现在我们的咖啡杯中，而不是在外面。我们这里已经汇集了世界主要的技术潮流。

记者：您对华为的未来比较乐观，但是您自己也在强调“下一个倒下的是不是华为”，为什么？

任正非：两个问题。第一，我们公司也会懈怠，我们增长的速度非常快，但是增长完了以后会不会变懒呢？我们要看到自己不足的地方。第二，我们国家一定要加强知识产权保护。物权都有物权法保护了，至少知识产权要等同于物权。国家要保护知识产权，才能有发明。

记者：前段时间您和爱立信签订了一个专利交叉许可协议？

任正非：是的，签订后我们公司高层欢呼雀跃，因为我们买了一张世界门票。我们一个普通员工写了个帖子，说“我们与世界握手，我们把世界握到了手中”。

如果我们保护原创发明，就有很多人去做原创，最后这个原创就会发展成产业。

修宽航道：“主航道只会越来越宽，宽到你不可想象”

记者：企业间的竞争其实挺残酷的，但刚才听您讲到和国外的竞争对手可以自如地对话，这是怎么做到的？不是都讲企业竞争搞焦土政策吗？

任正非：那是别人说的焦土政策，我们从来没有这样做过。华为是小公司的时候就很开放，和别人总体都是保持友好的。为什么我们在国际市场有这么好的空间？因为我们知识产权的“核保护伞”建立起来了，这些年我们交了那么多的知识产权费给别人，当然我们也收了非常多的专利费，和那么多公司签了专利交叉许可协议，这本身就是友善、尊重别人嘛。我们现在发展速度比别人快，进入的领域比别人深，我们还要顾及世界的发展。

记者：华为都是在主航道作战，那现在主航道是越来越宽了呢，还是越来越窄了呢？竞争对手是越来越多了、越来越强了，还是怎样一个情景？

任正非：主航道只会越来越宽，宽到你不可想象。我们现在还想象不出未来信息社会是什么样子。我们只是把航道修宽了，在航道上走各种船，游艇啊、货轮啊、小木船啊，是别人的，运营商也只是收过路费。所以我们要跟千万家公司合作，才可能实现这个目标。

管住“两条堤坝”：“政府最主要还是建立规则”

记者：在深圳，政府和企业的关系怎样？您对政府有什么建议？

任正非：深圳市政府做得比较好的一点，是政府基本不干预企业的具体运作。法治化、市场化，其实政府只要管住这两条堤坝，企业在堤坝内有序运营，就不要管。政府最主要还是建立规则，在法治化和市场化方面给企业提供最有力的保障。

记者：深圳创新型经济如何走在全国前列？

任正非：深圳就是要率先实现法治化、市场化，这方面要走在全国前面。打知识产权官司，法庭要公正判决。

记者：过去有一个阶段，珠三角地区被称为“世界工厂”。您怎么看这些年珠三角走的世界工厂之路？这条路对创新发展、创新驱动有怎样的价值？

任正非：20多年前你来华为看，会觉得华为是家快关闭的工厂。我们是利用两台万用表加一台示波器在一个烂棚棚里面起家的。我们曾经也是落后工厂，落后到比珠三角的加工厂还可怜。

演变是一个循序渐进的过程。现在珠三角大量劳动密集型产业转到东南亚去了。你不能只看珠三角有少数高科技公司成功了。高科技公司也是在“低科技”的基础上成长起来的。你只要给他条件，他就会改进自己、赶超自己，慢慢就会发展。高科技公司也需要“低科技”的零部件。

记者：也就是说，如果没有这些基础制造业的支撑，所谓高科技也是没有基础的？

任正非：是的。我们的高科技是由多少“低科技”组成的？每个零件都是高科技吗？不可能。我们的产品是由多少零件组成的？以前买这些零件，我们都是付人民币，到东莞提货，现在是付美金，到东南亚提货了。

走向繁荣：“锄头一定要种出玉米，玉米就是实体企业”

记者：您觉得现在抓住国际机遇进一步扩大改革开放，重点应该是在哪些方面？

任正非：第一，减税，先把税减下来。减税可以带来企业持续减负，从而增加更多投资和创新，企业有钱搞研发，这样就可能得到休养生息和喘息的空间，产业就能做大，税基也大了。第二，改变劳动和资本的分配机制。华为这些年劳动与资本的分配比例是3：1，每年经营增值部分，按资本与劳动的贡献设定一个分配比例，劳动者的积极性就起来了。

记者：创新跟改革开放是什么关系？

任正非：创新就是释放生产力，创造具体的财富，从而使中国走向繁荣。虚拟经济是工具，工具是锄头，不能说我用了五六十把锄头就怎么样了，锄头一定要种出玉米，玉米就是实体企业。我们还是得发展实体企业，以解决人们真正的物质和文化需要为中心，才能使社会稳定下来。

记者：有人说这些年改革的动力有弱化的现象，您怎么评价？

任正非：我认为如果每个人都抱着一夜暴富的想法，实现不了，它的动力就弱化了。但真真实实的是，天还是那个天，地还是那个地，辘轳篱笆狗都没有变，你怎么能变成“富二代”呢？如果我们抱着一种努力创造、缓慢健康成长的心态，每个人的满意度就提升了。

战略耐性：“没有理论的创新是不可能持久的，也不可能成功”

记者：美国硅谷是世界高科技的高地，中国创新的希望何在？

任正非：高科技领域最大的问题，是大家要沉得下心，没有理论基础的创新是不可能做成大产业的。“板凳要坐十年冷”，理论基础的板凳可能要坐更长时间。我们搞科研，人比设备重要。用简易的设备能做出复杂的科研成果来，而简易的人即使使用先进的设备也做不出什么来。

记者：中国有可能成长出许多个“华为”吗？

任正非：可以的。第一，小企业做大，就得专心致志为客户服务。小企业特别是创业的小企业，就是要认认真真、踏踏实实，真心诚意为客户服务。小企业不要去讲太多方法论，就是要真心诚意地磨好豆腐，豆腐做得好，一定是能卖出去的。只要真心诚意去对客户，改进质量，一定会有机会。不要把管理搞得太复杂。第二，先在一个领域里做好，持之以恒做好一个“螺丝钉”。第三，小公司不能稍微成功就自我膨胀。我始终认为企业要踏踏实实一步一步发展。

泡沫经济对中国是一个摧毁，我们一定要踏踏实实搞科研。一个基础理论变成大产业，要经历几十年的功夫，我们要有战略耐性。要尊重科学家，有一些人踏踏实实做研究。如果学术研究泡沫化，中国未来高科技很难有前途。不要泡沫化，不要着急，不要大跃进。没有理论的创新是不可能持久的，也不可能成功。

我们公司在世界资源聚集地建立了20多个能力中心，没有这些能力中心科学家的理论突破，就没有我们的领先世界。中国必须构建理论突破，创新才有出路。小改、小革，不可能成为大产业。

记者：您说的理论创新是指基础研究？

任正非：理论创新比基础研究还要超前，因为他写的方程也许连神仙都看不懂，就像爱因斯坦一百年前写的引力场方程，当时谁也看不懂，经过许多科学家一百年的研究才终于证明理论是对的。很多前沿理论突破以后，人类当时都不能理解。

记者：华为聘用的国外科学家很多？

任正非：我们海外研究所的科学家大多是外国人，所长是中国人，所长就是服务。我们“2012实验室”现在有700多位科学家，今年会到1400多人。

记者：高科技发展应该以基础理论为支撑？

任正非：有理论创新才能产生大产业，当然有技术创新也能前进。日本一个做螺丝钉的小企业，几十年只研究螺丝钉，它的螺丝钉永远不会松动，全世界的高速铁路大都是用这个公司的螺丝钉。一个螺丝钉就有非常多的地方可以研究。我去过德国的小村庄工厂，几十年就做一个产品，打出的介绍图不是说销售了多少，而是占世界份额多少，村庄企业啊！

记者：就您在华为成长过程中的感受，我们国家在未来一轮经济周期怎样才能“抢占”高新技术的一席之地？

任正非：首先不要有“抢占”这个概念，一抢，就泡沫化。就是踏踏实实做基础，融入世界潮流，与世界一同发展，分享世界的成功。

未来三十年：“一定会崛起非常多的大产业”

记者：有人说深圳走上了创新驱动发展的道路，其中的一个动力源就是华为？

任正非：未来信息社会的深度和广度不可想象，未来二三十年将是人类社会发生最大变化的时代。伴随生物技术的突破、人工智能的实现等等，未来人类社会一定会崛起非常多的大产业。

我们面对着极大的知识产权威胁。过去二三十年，是从落后通信走向宽带通信的二三十年，全世界出现多少大公司，美国思科、谷歌、Facebook、苹果，中国没有出多少，就是因为对知识产权保护不够。未来还会出现更多的大产业，比如VR虚拟现实，中国在这些产业是有优势的，但是要发展得更好，必须有十分苛刻的知识产权保护措施。

记者：您觉得中国应该建设和发展怎样的一种商业环境？

任正非：我认为中央提出新常态是非常正确的。我们不再追求高速度了，适当发展慢一点，有发展质量才是最根本的。

有个专家说，投资有两种方式：一种是外延方式，比如建一个钢铁厂，再建一个钢铁厂，又再建一个钢铁厂，规模就做大了；第二种叫普罗米修斯投资，普罗米修斯把火偷来了，有了火才有人类文明，这就是创新突破。我们国家提出要沿着创新之路增长经济，是正确的。外延式增长，投资越大产品越过剩，价格越来越低，投资效果越差。

记者：在您看来，我们面临着前所未有的大机遇，同时面临的大风险是什么？

任正非：我觉得，中国经济没有想象中那么大的问题。主要是不要把自己泡沫化了。中国的情况还是比别人好的，只要不让假货横行，就出不了大的问题。

防范危机：“高成本最终会摧毁你的竞争力”

记者：您觉得深圳未来的危机在哪里？

任正非：很简单，140年前，世界的中心在匹兹堡，有钢铁。70年前，世界的中心在底特律，有汽车。现在，世界的中心在哪里？不知道，会分散化，会去低成本的地方。高成本最终会摧毁你的竞争力。而且现在有了高铁、网络、高速公路，活力分布的时代已经形成了，但不会聚集在高成本的地方。

记者：华为是深圳本土成长的企业，您对深圳的城市发展比如国际化、改革开放等有怎样的期望？

任正非：深圳房地产太多了，没有大块的工业用地了。大家知道大工业的发展，每一个公司都需要一定的空间发展。

我们国家最终要走向工业现代化。四个现代化，最重要的是工业现代化。工业现代化最主要的，要有土地来换取工业的成长。现在土地越来越少，越来越贵，产业成长的可能空间就会越来越小。既然要发展大工业、引导大工业，就要算一算大工业需要的要素是什么，这个要素在全世界是怎么平均的，算一算每平方公里承载了多少产值，这些产值需要多少人，这些人要有住房，要有生活设施。生活设施太贵了，企业就承载不起；生产成本太高了，工业就发展不起来。

中国企业走出去：“要搞清楚法律，不是有钱就能投资的”

记者：对一些希望走出去的中国企业，有没有一些建议？

任正非：首先中国要建成法治国家，企业在国内就要遵纪守法。你在国内都不守法，出去一定是碰得头破血流。所以我不支持中国企业盲目走出去。制度对社会的影响不会立竿见影，会几十年一百年慢慢释放影响。第二，要学会在中国管理市场经济，在中国你死我活地对打，还活下来了的话，就能身强力壮地出去跟别人打。中国要加强法律、会计等各种制度的建设，使自己强盛了走出国门。不然企业走出去会遇到非常多的风险，最后可能血本无归。所以我认为，中国企业要走出去，首先要法治化，要搞清楚法律，不是有钱就能投资的。